What is the Gospel?

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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I can see you don't understand what Paul wrote any more than Nihilo does. :chuckle:

I simply quoted scripture... it's up to you to believe it or add to it's literal verbiage. However... you are entitled to your "opinion"... as scripture is entitled to it's own literal verbiage.

:e4e:

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[MENTION=83]Nihilo[/MENTION] has the high ground on this one, and I feel convicted to express so.
 
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glorydaz

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Paul was very clear that adulterers and slanderers and revilers and thieves and murderers and necromancers and those that strike their parents are not going to be welcome in God's kingdom. Fortunately, He gives us grace not to do those things, though our flesh fights hard to keep doing them (and sometimes wins out).

He also says, "Such were some of you." :)

Paul teaches that those who have been created in Christ Jesus are new creatures (all their sins (past, present, and future) are forgiven when they believe). All things are new..... 2 Corinthians 5:17 We are not left to fight hard with our flesh. We are to reckon ourselves dead to sin. That is an act of faith that we can witness come true. Our former "fight" against our flesh was a result of being under the law for righteousness.

Paul is ever mindful of the two greatest commandments: Love God and Love your neighbor (where "neighbor" means everybody but "me"). Non-believers are turned off by Christians that don't love their neighbor, because they recognize (inherently, intrinsically, inevitably) that it is what is required of everyone.

Yeah, except non-believers don't know what God's love looks like, so we can't concern ourselves with their judgment on the matter. They think it's telling people how wonderful they are. Giving to others is done for all to see, instead of where none can see. So, the world assumes if they don't see it, it doesn't exist. Can't win for losing when dealing with the world.

Thus, when we are called to repentance (from murder, theft, adultery, slander, reviling, necromancing, etc.), it's merely the other side of the faith coin. "Trust and Obey, for there's no other way to be happy in Jesus." Faith is believing that God is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him, meaning, I think, wanting to know what He wants us to do and doing it the best we can.

Believing in God and loving sin can't exist on the same coin, so in that respect a change of mind (repentance) is a part of the "faith coin". The problem with using that analogy, though, is how non-believers use it to support their error of doing things in order to be saved. That they have to DO SOMETHING other than believe in order to be saved. It becomes a work they can glory in.

Same with the idea of obedience. It gets changed to a work in order to earn salvation, rather than the outworking of faith that you're talking about. That's why, IMO, we need to stress that the "obedience" is not a result of our self-effort. "Trust and Obey"....one of my favourites is celebrating the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH. Anything we do outside of resting and trusting in the Lord is to be "excluded" by the very law of faith.

This is no easier for me than anyone else. I am that lazy servant that buried his masters talent in the ground. But I don't want to stay that way. Neither should any of us Christians.

I have a feeling, Derf, that you don't see just how faithful you have been. If you were seeing what you have done for the Lord, you'd be seeing things done through self-effort - times you went before the Lord instead of waiting for Him to do the performing.

Our rewards will come and it's supposed to be a surprise. When did I, Lord? He even gives us a reward for merely waiting while He performs the good work in us. Amazing Grace.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I simply quoted scripture... it's up to you to believe it or add to it's literal verbiage. However... you are entitled to your "opinion"... as scripture is entitled to it's own literal verbiage.

You simply pulled the verse out it's context just like he did. That you are forcing your understanding into what Paul said, is not my problem. :chew:

[MENTION=83]Nihilo[/MENTION] has the high ground on this one, and I feel convicted to express so.

Convicted? I hope you're not implying the Lord convicted you to do so. :nono:

You feel convicted to advertise your strutting alongside Nihilo? Poor guy. You've used him as a pawn in your grudge against me. You should be ashamed of yourself. :nono:
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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He also says, "Such were some of you." :)

Paul teaches that those who have been created in Christ Jesus are new creatures (all their sins (past, present, and future) are forgiven when they believe). All things are new..... 2 Corinthians 5:17 We are not left to fight hard with our flesh. We are to reckon ourselves dead to sin. That is an act of faith that we can witness come true. Our former "fight" against our flesh was a result of being under the law for righteousness.



Yeah, except non-believers don't know what God's love looks like, so we can't concern ourselves with their judgment on the matter. They think it's telling people how wonderful they are. Giving to others is done for all to see, instead of where none can see. So, the world assumes if they don't see it, it doesn't exist. Can't win for losing when dealing with the world.



Believing in God and loving sin can't exist on the same coin, so in that respect a change of mind (repentance) is a part of the "faith coin". The problem with using that analogy, though, is how non-believers use it to support their error of doing things in order to be saved. That they have to DO SOMETHING other than believe in order to be saved. It becomes a work they can glory in.

Same with the idea of obedience. It gets changed to a work in order to earn salvation, rather than the outworking of faith that you're talking about. That's why, IMO, we need to stress that the "obedience" is not a result of our self-effort. "Trust and Obey"....one of my favourites is celebrating the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH. Anything we do outside of resting and trusting in the Lord is to be "excluded" by the very law of faith.



I have a feeling, Derf, that you don't see just how faithful you have been. If you were seeing what you have done for the Lord, you'd be seeing things done through self-effort - times you went before the Lord instead of waiting for Him to do the performing.

Our rewards will come and it's supposed to be a surprise. When did I, Lord? He even gives us a reward for merely waiting while He performs the good work in us. Amazing Grace.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

Damn! I can't disagree with your words here... errrrr.... darn it...

sigh... On this point... :thumb: ... sincere.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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You simply pulled the verse out it's context just like he did. That you are forcing your understanding into what Paul said, is not my problem. :chew:



Convicted? I hope you're not implying the Lord convicted you to do so. :nono:

You feel convicted to advertise your strutting alongside Nihilo? Poor guy. You've used him as a pawn in your grudge against me. You should be ashamed of yourself. :nono:

Right... Poor you... too proud to admit you have picked a stance that scripture abolishes... :D

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.

If Christ had not Died? Nope

If Christ had not been buried? Nope

Raised? Yup

Is EASTER in the KJV ... Yup... and I'm pretty sure most Open Theists are KJV only... so there's that too. You could admit your error. It feels good. Humility is awesome. Though I try to avoid it... anyhow... Peace...
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Right... Poor you... too proud to admit you have picked a stance that scripture abolishes... :D

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.

If Christ had not Died? Nope

If Christ had not been buried? Nope

Raised? Yup

Is EASTER in the KJV ... Yup... and I'm pretty sure most Open Theists are KJV only... so there's that too. You could admit your error. It feels good. Humility is awesome. Though I try to avoid it... anyhow... Peace...

Yep, I see how you doubled down on taking a verse out of context. :popcorn:

And I've noted your gloating in your own humility.

Doesn't make you right, however. And your sleight of hand in handling the word of God is nothing new. We see it all the time. "It didn't say this, and it didn't say that, so it must mean this is the only..."

Yep, same old tactics we see all the time.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Yep, I see how you doubled down on taking a verse out of context. :popcorn:

And I've noted your gloating in your own humility.

Doesn't make you right, however. And your sleight of hand in handling the word of God is nothing new. We see it all the time. "It didn't say this, and it didn't say that, so it must mean this is the only..."

Yep, same old tactics we see all the time.

Oh no! Showstopper.... :D ....

You've been eating so much popcorn lately... I'm not sure if you're hitting the right keys, or even have enough time to actually hit them...

But look... It still supports [MENTION=83]Nihilo[/MENTION] 's assertion IN CONTEXT ... :cigar:

1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection of Christ

1Now I would remind you, brothers,a of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. 11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

The Resurrection of the Dead

12Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 15We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If in Christ we have hopeb in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

20But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “Godc has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

29Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? 30Why are we in danger every hour? 31I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day! 32What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” 33Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”d 34Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame.

The Resurrection Body

35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” 36You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. 43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”;e the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shallf also bear the image of the man of heaven.

Mystery and Victory

50I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.


Hebrews 2:14 agrees that Jesus defeating Death... Through the Resurrection... was Jesus's purpose for partaking in our flesh and blood.... :e4e:

Can I get an amen brother [MENTION=83]Nihilo[/MENTION] ... :D

 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Oh no! Showstopper.... :D ....

You've been eating so much popcorn lately... I'm not sure if you're hitting the right keys, or even have enough time to actually hit them...

But look... It still supports [MENTION=83]Nihilo[/MENTION] 's assertion IN CONTEXT ... :cigar:

1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection of Christ

1Now I would remind you, brothers,a of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,

Yes, big and dramatic. :DK:

But, I'll just let Paul speak for himself, and highlight what you started quoting. Rushing right past it in your eagerness to prove me wrong.


I can't read these further attempts to twist what Paul is saying, and all because of a personal grudge. Or, more likely, you aren't the spiritual giant you think you are. ;)

Right off the bat, PAUL tells us what is first in importance....that He died.

Course, is it just me, or would I rather have all my sins forgiven and be at peace with God...reconciled by His death or be given life? :idunno:

My faith would be in vain if there were no God.
My faith would be in vain if Jesus Christ was just a man, and not God in the flesh.
My faith would be in vain had Christ not died for my sins on the cross.
My faith would be in vain if His death, and my belief in it, did not justify me before God.

Our faith is based upon the person and the work of our Lord Jesus Christ. These childish attempts of yours to separate His death from His resurrection is just plain ignorance....all because you got your PRIDE hurt and are holding a grudge. :nono:

Keep showing your rear end, though, if you think it's that pretty.
 
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patrick jane

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Oh no! Showstopper.... :D ....
Paul tells us about the DBR and it is the gospel of salvation. Paul puts heavy emphasis on the resurrection and rightly so. His death saves us, His burial shows His humanity, His resurrection. shows His divinity and glory and our hope as we shall be like Him.

1 John 3:2-3 KJV - 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

It's DBR,. I may be wrong as I haven't kept up with the pages and pages of posts but enough to get a sense of it and the bizarre behavior.

You seem to enjoy playing the victim and portraying others as victims and what's with the socks?


 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Right... Poor you... too proud to admit you have picked a stance that scripture abolishes... :D

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.

If Christ had not Died? Nope

If Christ had not been buried? Nope

Raised? Yup

Is EASTER in the KJV ... Yup... and I'm pretty sure most Open Theists are KJV only... so there's that too. You could admit your error. It feels good. Humility is awesome. Though I try to avoid it... anyhow... Peace...

She is consistent though. :)
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
She is consistent though. :)

In what way? Because I'm wrong, and so give the Evil one a reason to gloat and cackle like a fool?

Or consistent with what is written? It can't be both.

You can be honest. I promise I won't have a tantrum, or go off the deep end like the Evil one is wont to do. I'll just know better what sort you are.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Paul tells us about the DBR and it is the gospel of salvation. Paul puts heavy emphasis on the resurrection and rightly so. His death saves us, His burial shows His humanity, His resurrection. shows His divinity and glory and our hope as we shall be like Him.

1 John 3:2-3 KJV - 2 [FONT=&]Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.[/FONT][FONT=&]3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.[/FONT]

It's DBR,. I may be wrong as I haven't kept up with the pages and pages of posts but enough to get a sense of it and the bizarre behavior.

You seem to enjoy playing the victim and portraying others as victims and what's with the socks?

:thumb:

Glory shoulda said that Nihilo shouldn't only focus on the resurrection, she didn't.

She put it out there like he should only be focusing on the death.

Now she's conceded it's okay to throw the Trinity on top of it, too.

Well.....

Without the resurrection dying just don't seem like all that much fun.

 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You seem to enjoy playing the victim and portraying others as victims and what's with the socks?

Both your surmise and your question have but one answer, PJ.

Not that he has had too much to drink, or is a poor little lamb who is abused by the big bad she wolf, but because he is an actor upon the stage of TOL. He's a bit part player with a tarnished reputation trying to gain back the spot light he once thinks he basked in. Ah, all that glory....gone with the wind. A has been. A B list player with a small low paying audience. A street mime collecting change in his dirty little socks lined up on the sidewalk at his feet. :mario:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You make a good point, but, in truth, they witnessed more than the Resurrection.

Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:​

If it was the resurrection ALONE that Paul is talking about, then Lazarus could be worshipped as well...there were witnesses to his being raised from the dead. Others were raised from the dead when Christ was, and they were seen of many.

You cite Romans 10:9, and seem to be overlooking a critical factor. Jesus was no ordinary man, like Lazarus, He was THE LORD. Therefore, HIS DEATH was paramount. There is no way the resurrection could take on the import it does without the dying. The dying for the sins of the world. The sins of the world born on the body of our LORD GOD is what we are confessing when we believe.

Romans 10:9KJV
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

And 1 Cor. 15:14KJV...an equally valid point excepting you're missing the crucial point in what Paul is saying. Our faith would be in vain because we would still be in our sins. Sins were taken care of at the CROSS...not at the Resurrection.

1 Cor. 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.​

:thumb:

Glory shoulda said that Nihilo shouldn't only focus on the resurrection, she didn't.

She put it out there like he should only be focusing on the death.


Now she's conceded it's okay to throw the Trinity on top of it, too.

Well.....

Without the resurrection dying just don't seem like all that much fun.

You really should look back before you make such statements.
 

patrick jane

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Both your surmise and your question have but one answer, PJ.

Not that he has had too much to drink, or is a poor little lamb who is abused by the big bad she wolf, but because he is an actor upon the stage of TOL. He's a bit part player with a tarnished reputation trying to gain back the spot light he once thinks he basked in. Ah, all that glory....gone with the wind. A has been. A B list player with a small low paying audience. A street mime collecting change in his dirty little socks lined up on the sidewalk at his feet. :mario:
I just love your writing style. :rotfl:
 
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