What is the Gospel?
- Thread starter Sonnet
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I’m banned for life at Christian forums. No sense of humor among the Catholics.
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heir
TOL Subscriber
I'll spend this post to show you some of the differences and when you are done going through them (hopefully actually looking into the bible to see if these things be so) it would be refreshing for you to be honest with yourself, the scriptures and even all of us here to admit that these things actually are different.
Israel's salvation was dependent upon them doing something by faith (James 2:18 KJV):
Repent, and believe the gospel (Mark 1:4 KJV) by baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4 KJV, Mark 16:16 KJV, Acts 2:38 KJV), keep the commandments (John 14:15 KJV, Matthew 23:2-3 KJV, John 15:5-10 KJV), endure to the end to be saved (Matthew 10:22 KJV), go through the trial of their faith (1 Peter 1:7 KJV), receiving the end of their faith, even the salvation of their souls (1 Peter 1:9 KJV). That salvation is of the grace that "should" come unto them (Acts 15:11 KJV, 1 Peter 1:10 KJV). They look forward that their sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (which is at what many refer to as the second coming of the Lord (Acts 3:19-21 KJV).
That is not the righteousness of God without the law by the faith of Jesus Christ that is unto all and upon all them that believe in this age (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). To be saved today is to trust the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) which is where the righteousness of God is revealed (Romans 1:16-17 KJV). Those who have trusted the Lord today having believed the gospel of Christ "are saved" presently (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV,Ephesians 2:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8 KJV). We get saved not by works of righteousness which we have done (Romans 4:4-5 KJV, Titus 3:4-7 KJV). We are baptized BY one Spirit into one Body (not by water for the remission of sins 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). We have now received the atonement (Romans 5:11 KJV).
heir
TOL Subscriber
Surely you can see from my last post that to believe in Him meant they had to DO something to prove they believed in Him. We aren't commanded to DO anything. Our salvation is BELIEVING what God HATH DONE in our place! You can't make that the same no matter how hard you try!
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heir
TOL Subscriber
We were never commanded to follow the Lord after the flesh as the 12 and Israel (love not their own lives unto death), but follow Paul (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV) who received abundance of visions and revelations of the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ that appeared to him. You can find what was revealed in Romans through Philemon including the gospel, doctrine, duty and destination to ambassadors for Christ.
Now, how about your salvation? Have you trusted the Lord yet?
I have no way of knowing. That's why it's faith. But what assures me that it's a reasonable and prudent risk to take that leap of faith, to convert Easter, in my own mind, to nonfiction, just as that the sun will rise again tomorrow morning is nonfiction, even though I have no way of truly knowing, is that people died preaching Easter. We know from Sacred Scripture that Stephen, James the son of Zebedee and brother of the Apostle John, and the Apostle Peter all were executed for preaching Easter. We know from Josephus that James the Just was martyred also, and we know from Pope Clement before the close of the first century that the Apostle Paul was also. There are less reliable traditions that all the Apostles were martyred, as witnesses to Easter. So that's one thing.
And the other thing is what happened when Easter was unleashed upon the world, how quickly the Church advanced in size and power, giving all paganisms the death penalty, leaving rafts of dead religions, later called "mythologies," in her wake.
It's not proof, it's just what you'd expect to happen if Easter is nonfiction.
Any one of them could have just said, "Whoa! I didn't know you were going to kill me! I take it back! We made up Easter!" And we have no evidence of any of that.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm not angry at you, dear boy. I just know you well enough that I can speak bluntly.
Nice try, though.
I just performed a deep IP search on Sonnet. He is not connected with any of the active socks that are running around TOL.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Thank you, Sherman. I appreciate that. :thumb:
My hands my be dirty... yet my soul is salvaged by the King of Kings
So... here it is PJ... you always keep it One Hundred and God speaks through you. You never were theology... but all heart for Christ. This is why... you always good in my eyes and I know you hold the faith to the last breath.
You and I know God’s heart for Israel...
You and I also know that dispy, covey, simple in faith, last breath declaration, just a willing branch of the Vine, Or saved in the final prophetic days... are all covered by the DBR.
You always good by God’s grace... in my book...
I may be out for a while... but the 1 John 2:27 never goes out of style... all clay jars pour forth the gleam, of our Heavenly Father, Holy Spirit King...
2nd Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
I’ll see you again... so let me put it this way... I’m dipping out on a good note... with nothing but blessings on my tongue and prayers for the young... in Jesus Christ... that the Old Jitter Bugs... will see what’s right... Glory to God and Jesus is that Glory... this about wraps up my story... that and the Gospel is simple as simple can be... The Maker set me free!
See you on the other side PJ... all my best to you...
I’ll let you in on a secret... I worked with inmates for 8 years of my life and was blessed to be converted and teach Christ... during that time... they would come from all over the compound... sins weighing them down, and I was blessed to tell them about the ONE that Found... me. No matter who or where... the Gospel saves and I’ll never forget the simple way... Book, Theology or whatever... it never compares to the simple message that The Maker is Christ and He laid it all down for all of us, and picked it all back up with all of us...
Peace and Love PJ... you know the way...
I’ll spin one more post to track what is happening... thanks for being chill and always making me feel welcome here without a harsh tone... it always matters...
What has been accomplished and debated thus far...
1) Sonnet specifically sees the All not meaning all in Calvinism as Gospel splitting and destroying.
2) God can reach Man with and without scripture... IE... [MENTION=11892]blackbirdking[/MENTION] is pointing out that until Sonnet fully experiences Jesus and His Love... Sonnet will be searching and no scripture can fix that... as Sonnet is in the process of establishing a relationship with Jesus that Jesus has been working on for years...
3) The place of the temple destruction in scripture as it relates to Dispensationalist perspective and Sonnet
4) Dispensational perspective... when straightforward... but not hashed to fine detailes and schisms may hold answers for Sonnets biblical questions.
5) Sonnet is here sincerely and is not a troll.
... this is verified as he has no other accounts here and is consistent with his questions... Sonnet is sincerely seeking and Love and Communication with kindness is best in answering his debate and Questioning in “This” situation! ... though Scripture says all... situations... and yeah... I fail time after time on that one!
6) Sonnet has new faith with normal doubt and meaningful questions that go with it
7) Should unity occur with deception involved? As in... we forgive Calvinism... but is the all not meaning all acceptable in the eyes of God and though Calvinists are saved by faith... in witness... do we have to cover up the facts of the matter?
8) EE needs to chill from ToL for a while and wishes all of you his best...
9) [MENTION=595]Knight[/MENTION] and [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION] are people of Love! If they weren’t... I would have been canned... long ago! Therefore... ToL exalts Jesus and the DBR far above all else and is a Gospel powerhouse!
Disclaimer if I ever get permabanned... I deserve it... and all strikes I’ve gotten here... I deserve and appreciate.
:e4e:
1 more thing for [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION] ...
The “Temple” is twofold... as in
1) The Physical Temple And...
2) Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb
So... a powerful being claiming to be Jesus and the literal Temple Mount structure are both insinuated and prophetic...
The real Jesus will return in Physical form... per Acts 1. But... there will most likely be a fake one that isn’t Him at all... first... He warned of this...
So much more... but... then again... nuff said...
You’re always a blessing to me [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION] !!!
1) Sonnet specifically sees the All not meaning all in Calvinism as Gospel splitting and destroying.
2) God can reach Man with and without scripture... IE... [MENTION=11892]blackbirdking[/MENTION] is pointing out that until Sonnet fully experiences Jesus and His Love... Sonnet will be searching and no scripture can fix that... as Sonnet is in the process of establishing a relationship with Jesus that Jesus has been working on for years...
3) The place of the temple destruction in scripture as it relates to Dispensationalist perspective and Sonnet
4) Dispensational perspective... when straightforward... but not hashed to fine detailes and schisms may hold answers for Sonnets biblical questions.
5) Sonnet is here sincerely and is not a troll.
... this is verified as he has no other accounts here and is consistent with his questions... Sonnet is sincerely seeking and Love and Communication with kindness is best in answering his debate and Questioning in “This” situation! ... though Scripture says all... situations... and yeah... I fail time after time on that one!
6) Sonnet has new faith with normal doubt and meaningful questions that go with it
7) Should unity occur with deception involved? As in... we forgive Calvinism... but is the all not meaning all acceptable in the eyes of God and though Calvinists are saved by faith... in witness... do we have to cover up the facts of the matter?
8) EE needs to chill from ToL for a while and wishes all of you his best...
9) [MENTION=595]Knight[/MENTION] and [MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION] are people of Love! If they weren’t... I would have been canned... long ago! Therefore... ToL exalts Jesus and the DBR far above all else and is a Gospel powerhouse!
Disclaimer if I ever get permabanned... I deserve it... and all strikes I’ve gotten here... I deserve and appreciate.
:e4e:
1 more thing for [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION] ...
The “Temple” is twofold... as in
1) The Physical Temple And...
2) Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb
So... a powerful being claiming to be Jesus and the literal Temple Mount structure are both insinuated and prophetic...
The real Jesus will return in Physical form... per Acts 1. But... there will most likely be a fake one that isn’t Him at all... first... He warned of this...
So much more... but... then again... nuff said...
You’re always a blessing to me [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION] !!!
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Sonnet
New member
Just so I know exactly your perspective - you do acknowledge that the same Gospel was preached by Paul to both Jews and Gentiles in Acts 13?
38 “Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.
and that there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile:
Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
glorydaz
Well-known member
So you're explaining all about the purposes of Sonnet and Blackbird? Are you sure you got it all?
When are you going to explain what all the rest of us have said.
Perhaps a thread all it's own would be in order. :think:
I can hardly wait.
glorydaz
Well-known member
It didn't take Truster long, did it?
Sonnet
New member
I don't really see the subtle distinctions you see. You mention John 14:15 and Matthew 23:2-3 regarding the commandments but doesn't Paul explains in Romans 10 that it is through faith that the Law is kept? He explicitly says:
Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ask Mr. Religion
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No. You have it terribly wrong.
Faith in Our Lord's active and passive obedience on behalf of the ones believing upon Him is not "hope" as you no doubt are using the word.
There are many things in this world we "hope" for. We hope that we will receive a raise in our salary. We hope that our favorite team will win the World Series. This kind of hope expresses our personal desires for the future. We have hope concerning things that are uncertain. We don't know if our desires will come to pass, but we hold out hope that they will. This is the hope you are expressing and wrongly attributing to Biblical faith. At best, you are but a Romanist that can never be assured of their faith without the endless treadmill of works.
However, when Scripture speaks of hope, it has something different in view. Scriptural hope is a firm conviction that the future promises of God will be fulfilled. Scriptural hope is not mere wish projection, but an assurance of what will come to pass. "This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil" (Hebrews 6:19).
Hope takes its place alongside faith and love as one of the Christian virtues that the apostle Paul sets forth in 1 Corinthians 13:13. Hope is faith directed toward the future.
Hope is used in two ways in Scripture. The less common usage points out the object of our hope: Our Lord Jesus Christ is our hope of eternal life. The more common usage is as an attitude of assurance regarding the fulfillment of God's promises. The Christian is called to hope, that is, to have full assurance of the resurrection of God's people and the coming of God's kingdom (see 1 John 5:13).
From the WLC:
"Q. 80. Can true believers be infallibly assured that they are in the estate of grace, and that they shall persevere therein unto salvation?
"A. Such as truly believe in Christ, and endeavor to walk in all good conscience before him, may, without extraordinary revelation, by faith grounded upon the truth of God’s promises, and by the Spirit enabling them to discern in themselves those graces to which the promises of life are made, and bearing witness with their spirits that they are the children of God, be infallibly assured that they are in the estate of grace and shall persevere therein unto salvation. 1 John 2:3; 1 Cor. 2:12; 1 John 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24; 1 John 4:13, 16; Heb. 6: 11- 12; Rom. 8:16; 1 John 5:13.
"Q. 81. Are all true believers at all times assured of their present being in the estate of grace, and that they shall be saved?
"A. Assurance of grace and salvation not being of the essence of faith, true believers may wait long before they obtain it; and, after the enjoyment thereof, may have it weakened and intermitted, through manifold distempers, sins, temptations, and desertions; yet are they never left without such a presence and support of the Spirit of God, as keeps them from sinking into utter despair. Eph. 1:13; Isa. 1:10; Ps. 88:1-18; Ps. 77:1-12; Song of Sol. 5:2-3, 6; Ps. 51:8, 12; Ps. 31:22; Ps. 22:1; 1 John 3:9; Job 13:15; Ps. 73:15, 23; Isa. 54:7-10."
"A. Such as truly believe in Christ, and endeavor to walk in all good conscience before him, may, without extraordinary revelation, by faith grounded upon the truth of God’s promises, and by the Spirit enabling them to discern in themselves those graces to which the promises of life are made, and bearing witness with their spirits that they are the children of God, be infallibly assured that they are in the estate of grace and shall persevere therein unto salvation. 1 John 2:3; 1 Cor. 2:12; 1 John 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24; 1 John 4:13, 16; Heb. 6: 11- 12; Rom. 8:16; 1 John 5:13.
"Q. 81. Are all true believers at all times assured of their present being in the estate of grace, and that they shall be saved?
"A. Assurance of grace and salvation not being of the essence of faith, true believers may wait long before they obtain it; and, after the enjoyment thereof, may have it weakened and intermitted, through manifold distempers, sins, temptations, and desertions; yet are they never left without such a presence and support of the Spirit of God, as keeps them from sinking into utter despair. Eph. 1:13; Isa. 1:10; Ps. 88:1-18; Ps. 77:1-12; Song of Sol. 5:2-3, 6; Ps. 51:8, 12; Ps. 31:22; Ps. 22:1; 1 John 3:9; Job 13:15; Ps. 73:15, 23; Isa. 54:7-10."
Again, what prevents you from calling upon the name of the Lord and being saved, such that you may possess the hope described above?
AMR
Ask Mr. Religion
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I think Truster was directing that to Sonnet's claim:I'm sorry I missed this. There is more to this thread than what EE purports.opcorn:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5106716#post5106716
Hence, EE's notion that Sonnet is a new believer is a wee bit premature. I even ventured that Sonnet may be a believer struggling, but am forced to withdraw such a "hope" (a desire for something not certain) given Sonnet's claim that all belief is but naked "hope" and not grounded in assurance of one's faith. No true believer would make such a claim without throwing themselves at the foot of the Cross in repentance and seeking forgiveness.
AMR
glorydaz
Well-known member
I love the way Paul says of Abraham.....Rom. 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.