glorydaz
Well-known member
Then they need to wait upon the Lord, and not be looking for guidance anywhere else.
What is the appropriate level of giving for retired people?
- Thread starter 2003cobra
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Then they need to wait upon the Lord, and not be looking for guidance anywhere else.
glorydaz
Well-known member
glorydaz
Well-known member
I save all my anger for those who sow discord or malign God's word.
Best watch your step, bub.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Many people.
That is funny. Thanks for the smile.
Animals for food and agricultural products were tithed to the Levites.
That was their inheritance instead of tribal land.
The only direction on giving, according to the Bible, is to give from the heart. Mark 12:42 and Luke 21:2 speak of a widow who gave two coins of very small value. Was her contribution any less than someone's that might have been worth a fortune? Jesus said her contribution was worth MORE than all the others because she gave all she had and she gave from her heart. Giving a prescribed amount or a percentage of one's income, is not giving from the heart, nor should it ease one's conscience about what they did give.
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Could you show that from scripture?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord.
Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe.
Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.
Deuteronomy 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deuteronomy 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the Lord your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the Lord:
Deuteronomy 12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
Deuteronomy 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deuteronomy 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.
Deuteronomy 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deuteronomy 26:12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
2 Chronicles 31:5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.
2 Chronicles 31:6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the Lord their God, and laid them by heaps.
2 Chronicles 31:12 And brought in the offerings and the tithes and the dedicated things faithfully: over which Cononiah the Levite was ruler, and Shimei his brother was the next.
Nehemiah 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.
Nehemiah 12:44 And at that time were some appointed over the chambers for the treasures, for the offerings, for the firstfruits, and for the tithes, to gather into them out of the fields of the cities the portions of the law for the priests and Levites: for Judah rejoiced for the priests and for the Levites that waited.
Nehemiah 13:5 And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.
Nehemiah 13:12 Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.
Amos 4:4 Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Hebrews 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Although there is no such statement in scripture such as, "the tithe is the minimum" a quick look at the above scriptures does indicate that the tithe was the portion expected.
Is a lesser amount ever indicated? I am not aware of such a scripture,
But I do see in
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
the clear indication that not tithe and offering is called robbery.
Robbing God, it is not referred to as robbing your denomination or your church leaders but robbing God.
Also noteworthy is the word "offering" that indicates something beyond the tithe
Granted that Malachi was under the law as were the people God revealed his will to by Malachi
But we do see Abraham give a tithe and that was many years before the law required it
Abraham is referred to as the father of all that believe. Tithing is believing
The commandment to tithe, or contribute a tenth of one’s belongings, was part of the Law given to the ancient nation of Israel. However, the Bible makes it clear that this Law—including the “commandment to collect tithes”—does not apply to Christians.—Hebrews 7:5, 18; Colossians 2:13, 14.
It's obviously your choice whether or not to follow Jewish traditions. However, wouldn't it be prudent as Christians, who claim to follow Jesus, to obey the Bible’s direction to Christians: “Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”—2 Corinthians 9:7.
Tithing is a requirement, it doesn't necessarily come from the heart. Contributing from the heart, means giving freely, not under compulsion or because you are expected to.
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I understand this is the Jewish Law.
Have you read Acts 15? Believers of Gentile origin are not under the Jewish Law.
Abraham did not give a tithe of his goods, but of what he took in battle — the goods of others. Then he returned the 90% of the stolen goods.
By the way, oatmeal, I have always given more than 10%. It just does not appear to me that there is scriptural evidence for 10% being the minimum.
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Probably, as all that we have is not really ours, but God's. We are but stewards of God's abundance.
AMR
oatmeal
Well-known member
You correctly point out that tithing is to come from the heart,
but,
Evidently, you did not read my entire post or you do not realize that Abraham, who tithed to Mel, the high priest, was not a Judean, nor was he under the law for the law was not yet given.
Abraham is called the father of all those who believe. Do you consider yourself a believer? Should you follow your father's example? Should you tithe? Abraham did. what is holding you back?
The tithe is not law, it is the financial recognition that God is God and that all you are, have, and ever hope to be as a human being, let alone a believer hinges on God's creating the heavens and earth and that God supplies you need according to his riches in glory. Philippians 4:19
That being said, it is clear that tithing is not about the law but about heart and recognition that it is God that supplies all your need.
What is the context of God supplying all your need? Philippians 4:19
Giving and receiving.
(note: people talk about the give and take of love, that is error, it is giving and receiving)
Since you are no longer under the law, are you saying that adultery is now fine to do?
How about worshipping idols?
How about murder?
Is is ok not to honor your father and mother?
After all you are no longer under the law!
Sin is described very well in the law of Moses.
Those accurate descriptions of sin are still sin
Not being under the law does not make sin into a virtue.
As I said, the Law does have value. But the new covenant, with Jesus's sacrifice, includes the Law, AND goes above and beyond it. He called it a new law, one that was easier for the people to adhere to, because it wasn't so strict. If you want to make your life more complicated by following a set of rules, that is your choice. Most of the people I've met, however, find man's laws overbearing enough; yet, the principles of Jesus's law are refreshing. They allow people the ability to think for themselves. They don't have to do things of the Law because that's what their ancestors did thousands of years ago.
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Provide scripture to support this "new, less strict law".
It seems that you have it backwards. Jesus made the law more strict.
Matt 5:21-22 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:21) ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: (5:22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matt 5:27-28 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:27) ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (5:28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Jesus showed that the law was not limited to the outward action, but also to the inward heart.
Matthew 22:37 This commandment was not in the Law of Moses specifically, yet Jesus said it was the greatest. How much more simple is it to love God completely, than to follow a set of laws that come to the same conclusion?
Proverbs 10:12 1 Peter 4:8 The Law was very specific as to things the Israelites must not do. However, how simple is it to show unconditional love toward everyone, even our enemies, so that we would never do any of those things in the Law.
1 Peter speaks of having intense love, which is more than just saying "until you start causing me problems".
There's nothing wrong with following the Law to the letter; IF YOU FOLLOW IT TO THE LETTER. I capitalized this because of how difficult it can be to do so.
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