I think I just wasted 15 minutes on that thread which I can never get back.
You've taken a supposition and tried to cram it into the creation story, but you can tell it doesn't make sense, so you have to allegorize everything.
Does this not answer the whole pre-existence thing:
Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. [1Co 15:46 KJV]
And, if you say that the dead are returned to the state that they were in before they were made flesh, then they must have started out dead. And thus, it is not appointed unto man to die once, but multiple times, in your view.
But let's just say, for argument's sake, that man pre-existed his creation as a spiritual (and sinful, apparently) being. How do you think that reflects on the post-physical existence of man?
I'm glad you read it and are thinking and prepared to discuss all this. To understand all this and more you must deal with the main stream Christian view on Hebrews 9:27.
Most Christian's know that traditionally Christian teaching say's there is no such thing as reincarnation and indeed Christian's often use the only verse in the entire Bible that seems to 'prove' reincarnation is not real, Hebrews 9:27. Unfortunately this is because of a general mistranslation and a misunderstood verse and chapter. Here is the direct original Greek translation from the Interlinear Bible.
Hebrews 9:27
And down to which, a which it situateth off, unto the ones, unto mankind, to once to have had died off, with moreover to the one, this a separating.
Notice that it say's mankind, most translations however instead say 'man'. The Weymouth New Testament translation has about the closest match to the original wording:
Hebrews 9:27
And since it is reserved for all mankind once to die, and afterwards to be judged.
It's clear is that the writer throughout chapter nine uses the word mankind rather than just the word 'man'. Chapter nine is about the broader picture of God's plan for mankind and how Jesus only had to die once for mankind’s redemption, unlike the repeated mosaic sacrificial system. This was an important question at the time for the new Jewish Christian's. The writer then explains similarly that mankind will also die once and then face a final judgement. The writer does not suddenly change from talking about the larger picture of God's plan for mankind, to then just focusing on each individual's person's death. Instead he is actually talking about the final judgement that John writes about in chapter twenty of Revelation:
Revelation 20:11-15
Then I saw a great white throne, and One who was seated on it [God], from whose presence earth, and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing in front of the throne. And books were opened; and so was another book, namely the Book of Life; and the dead were judged by the things recorded in the books in accordance with what their conduct had been. Then the sea yielded up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades yielded up the dead who were in them, and each man was judged in accordance with what his conduct had been. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of fire; this is the Second Death, the Lake of fire. And if any one's name was not found recorded in the Book of Life he was thrown into the Lake of fire.
It is true of course that each individual is judged at their death as to whether they had faith in Jesus as there saviour, which determines if they go to Heaven or Hell but the judgement for the rewards are not done till the final judgement after the millennial reign of Christ. There is a partial reward for the 144,000 at the second coming of Christ, when they receive their resurrected bodies a thousand years before the great multitude get their resurrected bodies at the second resurrection:
Revelations 20:4-6
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.[The twenty four elders] And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus, and because of the word of God. [The 144,000] They had not worshipped the beast [The Anti-Christ] or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. [The great multitude]) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection [The 144,000]. The second death [The lake of fire] has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Throughout history Christian sects have sprung up with the truth that reincarnation is real, such as the Gnostics, Sethian, Valentinus, and Cather's for example but all were eventually squashed and killed off as heretic’s, mainly by the Catholic church. Such as in 1209 when they in-sighted crusader's to burn hundred's of Cather's alive at Montsegur, near Toulouse, in the south of France. Indeed, reincarnation is taught in the Jewish tradition's and this verse is often sited as alluding to reincarnation:
Job 33:29-30
“Behold, God does all these things, twice, three times, with a man, to bring back his soul from the pit, that he may be lighted with the light of life.
Jesus Himself and His disciples alluded to reincarnation a number of times too. For instance, Jesus stated that Elijah had come back as John the Baptist but he was not recognised and that Elijah would come again to restore all things, which John the Baptist clearly did not fulfil:
Mathew 17:10-13
The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.
There are a number of other scriptures too where Jesus suggests or speaks about reincarnation:
Matthew 16:28
Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Some Christians say this is referring to the Transfiguration but Jesus did not come in His Kingdom at that time. Instead Jesus was stating that some of the disciples with Him would be alive when He returns in the power and majesty of His Kingdom at His second coming. This could only happen if they are reincarnated to be alive at the time of Jesus’ return. Here’s another time that Jesus referred to us having more than one life.
John 21:20-23
Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the disciple John, who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”) When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?” Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” Because of this, the rumour spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”
The only way John could be alive at Jesus' second coming is if he is reincarnated. The disciples also alluded to reincarnation when they suggested the man born blind may have sinned in a previous life:
John 9:2
His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
It’s perhaps also worth pointing out that there are two types of deaths:
Revelation 2:11
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death.
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
It explains here that death itself and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire, which is like the Hell of Hell's. Death was one of the curses placed on man after the fall and it is this curse of our ‘first’ earthly type of death that we experience at the end of each life, which will be removed from those who enter into Heaven after the judgement, allowing those in Heaven and on the New Earth to live forever. Thus death will be destroyed in the lake of fire; which is the second and final type of death.
Beside these Biblical allusions there have been thousands of accounts of near death experiences throughout history, which point to an afterlife and equally, there numerous accounts from of people that have purported to have been reincarnated and lived before their current life too.
One estimate of how many Christians actually believe in reincarnation is about one in ten and it makes far more sense that we are reincarnated, as this way everyone would be given a fair chance to hear the message that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins. Otherwise all those who’d lived and died before Jesus came the first time, as well as all those who haven’t heard about Him since His resurrection; through no fault of their own, would be able to hear the Gospel and consider for themselves whether His message was true or not. Thus Jesus would be able to judge everyone equally on this basis. After all salvation and entry to heaven is only through Jesus:
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
It would be just like a fair and just God to give us several lifetimes to give us as many chances as possible to turn to His Son, especially when He loves us so much that he gave His only Son to die for us. I believe we have all had many lives throughout history and that this created reality is part of a larger refining process, that will result in a perfect order when God the Father returns to renew Heaven and Earth after the Millennial Reign. The Millennial Reign will be when everyone who has yet to be saved will get another chance on Earth but this time with Jesus as their King who they will be able to see, this is when the great Multitude will be saved, and is why Jesus said:
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
The blessed are the 144,000 who will reign as Priests of God and Christ for the thousand years.
I also believe this revelation about reincarnation will be and is being revealed now in these end times, because for all intents and purposes, this will be our last life before Jesus returns because His return is so close. So even the misinterpretation of Hebrews is actually ‘quite’ true, in the sense that because most of us will die during the tribulation, most will face a judgement after our last earthly death in this current age.
Also, the reason I believe this revelation wasn’t allowed to be widely accepted before now; was to impress upon us, over the last two thousand years, the importance of making that critical choice, whether to believe in Jesus or not, without thinking that we may get another chance in another life. Consider the recent rise in the population of the Earth, it’s greater now than ever before, as if we’re all being gathered together for one last chance to hear about Jesus before He returns. Don’t you think?
