Was Jesus a man of color .

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Yes; we live in this world; and are shown to regard the things there of as of GOD as all creation surely is, but we are also shown to worship no likeness of beast or man, or an artifact of the hands of man.

As someone else noted; we are to believe in Spirit and in Truth which is the actual Christ and not simply a generated image from the mechanisms devised by the hands of man. But that revering such an image is wholly spoken against throughout all scripture.

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As I said the image was created by a supernatural burst of plasma that has been proven scientifically and means that only God could have done this. The image was created by God and not by man, therefore it does not break His second command. Don't you understand this? Also no one said to worship the image, it was just a by-product of Jesus' resurrection.

 

[popsthebuilder]

As I said the image was created by a supernatural burst of plasma that has been proven scientifically and means that only God could have done this. The image was created by God and not by man, therefore it does not break His second command. Don't you understand this? Also no one said to worship the image, it was just a by-product of Jesus' resurrection.

To be reciprocally clear; I do not deny the possibility that is could be what you say.

I deny that it is relevant.

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[WatchmanOnTheWall]

To be reciprocally clear; I do not deny the possibility that is could be what you say.

I deny that it is relevant.

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Well we are finding a bit of common ground then as the image does not take away or add from Jesus' death that paid the price but for some it has been the way they have come to faith. So that alone makes it important and therefore it does have some relevance but as far as to what colour Jesus was it doesn't tell us, so as far as that's concerned then it is not relevant.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Well we are finding a bit of common ground then as the image does not take away or add from Jesus' death that paid the price but for some it has been the way they have come to faith. So that alone makes it important and therefore it does have some relevance.

I'm glad we have some common ground.

But how did people get saved prior to the man Jesus dying?

You are aware that the temple of GOD can be destroyed and raised back up by the will of GOD right? You know GOD didn't die right? The Spirit never died, and it is not death of Jesus that saves us or the GOD of death that we worship neither in spirit or in truth.

If one comes to know of the teachings and example and self sacrifice of the Christ of GOD via that man made image, then good; I only hope that they do not worship a man or an image of GOD as if the literal fullness there of.



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[God's Truth]

Pure speculation, where is your evidence. Oh yeah that's right you don't need evidence, just your feelings. That's shows your ability to not only ignore scripture but twist it when it doesn't fit your feelings. If you had of watched the video it shows just how incredibly marred the image shows Jesus was but again you don't need evidence because you have your imagination. Only in your imagination. False accusations are the devils work. Are you aware you are doing Satan's work. No, as far as I can see. Nothing there to do with the OP or what Jesus looked like. You are easily distracted like a child and just as ignorant. I can say you are ignorant because I have not ignored the evidence in the film which you have and therefore can make this considered judgement of you.

I couldn't care any less what you think of me.

You do a bad thing trying to promote an image and mock the Holy Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

Again you show you ignorance of scripture. The image on the shroud was made by God not man. He is sovereign and can do what He wants. It's not there to be worshipped. It is a witness.

Yep you are ignorant of scripture.

You wanting it to be a picture doesn't make it so. God already testified to the gospel a long time ago. God testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I'm glad we have some common ground.

Yep.

But how did people get saved prior to the man Jesus dying?

This is the thread for that: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?128427-What-ever-happened-to&highlight=

You are aware that the temple of GOD can be destroyed and raised back up by the will of GOD right? You know GOD didn't die right? The Spirit never died,

Agreed.

and it is not death of Jesus that saves us

His death paid the price for our sins, belief in this can save. (Conversion can come in many ways but is only a first step in our sanctification):

Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

Hebrews 9:12
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

John 19:30
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

or the GOD of death

Who is this?

that we worship neither in spirit or in truth.

Jesus said the opposite:

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

If one comes to know of the teachings and example and self sacrifice of the Christ of GOD via that man made image, then good; I only hope that they do not worship a man or an image of GOD as if the literal fullness there of.

I don't know of anyone who worships the shroud. I think most Christians know that we worship God and not a physical object.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You wanting it to be a picture doesn't make it so.

That again is another feeling you are basing your reasoning on all because you ignore the evidence that I have watched and you have not. You are allowing your ignorance and feelings to rule your reasoning.

God already testified to the gospel a long time ago.

Agreed and the shroud has also been scientifically dated to with in 100 years years of Christ's life by three separate dating methods that are all repeatable in the laboratory, thus it too testifies to the Good News from that time.

God testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles,

Agreed and the image on the shroud has also been scientifically proven to have been made by a burst of plasma energy and thus could only have been made supernaturally which was another miracle by God, (but you choose to ignore God's miracle). All these many evidences are demonstrated in the video's you choose to ignore because you love your feelings more than the truth. Your faith must be very weak and I would strongly advise you to ask God for more faith and more courage to help you explore your reality more otherwise the day will come when events will over take you and sweep your watery faith away.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yep.This is the thread for that: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?128427-What-ever-happened-to&highlight=Agreed.His death paid the price for our sins, belief in this can save. (Conversion can come in many ways but is only a first step in our sanctification):

Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

Hebrews 9:12
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

John 19:30
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Who is this? Jesus said the opposite:

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.




I don't know of anyone who worships the shroud. I think most Christians know that we worship God and not a physical object.

So you claim we are saved by the death of Jesus and not His life?

I was saying we are to worship in spirit and truth, not that we aren't.

How is it that you say yes, we are saved by the death of Jesus, but then when asked how you redirect to a whole different thread? If that is what you believe then you should be able to explain why with scripture.

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[marhig]

Yep.This is the thread for that: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?128427-What-ever-happened-to&highlight=Agreed.His death paid the price for our sins, belief in this can save. (Conversion can come in many ways but is only a first step in our sanctification):

Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

Hebrews 9:12
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

John 19:30
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Who is this? Jesus said the opposite:

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.




I don't know of anyone who worships the shroud. I think most Christians know that we worship God and not a physical object.

The life for ransom that Jesus gave was to lay down his life to do the will of God, and in doing so he was able to save as many who would believe in the word of God that he was preaching, we are saved through Christ, through faith by the grace of God, reconciled to God by his word, not by the natural death of Jesus. Jesus was murdered by wicked men, and Jesus said, this is your hour and the power of darkness, God isn't darkness, he is light, satan is the power darkness. The parable of the wicked vine dressers is about Jesus, and God wanted them to reverence him not murder him. And they were cast out for doing so.

The blood isn't the natural blood from the natural cross, but rather the blood we drink which is taking his life in. Jesus said if we don't eat his flesh and drink his blood we have no life in us, this isn't natural, it's Spiritual. The life is in the blood and to have life we have to have the blood of Christ within us and we do that by taking into our hearts the life and teachings of Jesus and then we live them out. It's this blood that cleanses us from sin, changing and cleaning our hearts through the power of the Spirit.

If the death of Jesus saves us, why didn't Jesus and the 12 apostles preach this?

The true cross that Paul speaks about, is the cross that Christ Jesus bore, the same cross that he tells us to take up when we follow him, and Jesus said that those not willing to take up their cross are not worthy of him.

We are saved by his life not his death.

1 Thessalonians 2

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED OUR LORD JESUS , and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; AND THEY PLEASE NOT GOD , and are contrary to all men

Why would God have to come from heaven to be crucified to save us from his own wrath? And why would he want his son to be a human sacrifice if he it didn't please him when they killed Jesus? Jesus was a living sacrifice, not a dead one.

No, God sent his son, Christ Jesus to bare witness to the truth to save as many of us sinners as would believe in the word of God, and he was murdered for doing so, thus he died for our sins. He was put to death for bringing us the truth and trying to save us sinners from sin and reconcile us to God through the gospel by the word of God.

 

[God's Truth]

That again is another feeling you are basing your reasoning on all because you ignore the evidence that I have watched and you have not. You are allowing your ignorance and feelings to rule your reasoning. Agreed and the shroud has also been scientifically dated to with in 100 years years of Christ's life by three separate dating methods that are all repeatable in the laboratory, thus it too testifies to the Good News from that time. Agreed and the image on the shroud has also been scientifically proven to have been made by a burst of plasma energy and thus could only have been made supernaturally which was another miracle by God, (but you choose to ignore God's miracle). All these many evidences are demonstrated in the video's you choose to ignore because you love your feelings more than the truth. Your faith must be very weak and I would strongly advise you to ask God for more faith and more courage to help you explore your reality more otherwise the day will come when events will over take you and sweep your watery faith away.

Don't worry, I have a powerful testimony.

Just wondering, are you one of the people directly involved with the making of that video, or maybe someone involved personally with the shroud?

 

[marhig]

Nat Geo did a special on Jesus and this is what they came up with.....anybody has a problem this image?

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I think Jesus would have looked like every other Jewish man of his time, except there would have been nothing of this world in him.

But what he looked like is not important, it's what he preached that's important and the way he lived to show us the way.

 

[God's Truth]

Yep.This is the thread for that: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?128427-What-ever-happened-to&highlight=Agreed.His death paid the price for our sins, belief in this can save. (Conversion can come in many ways but is only a first step in our sanctification):

Matthew 20:28
Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

Hebrews 9:12
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

John 19:30
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Who is this? Jesus said the opposite:

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.




I don't know of anyone who worships the shroud. I think most Christians know that we worship God and not a physical object.

Jesus dying is the Greatest Love ever known.

We have to believe that his blood washes away our sins, and obeying his words is eating his flesh.

You haven't proven that shroud has the image of Christ.

People have been venerating/worshiping images made of stone and paper long before the shroud.

 

[God's Truth]

Watchmanonthewall,

You said that there was no broken broken parts, but the shroud you are promoting says that there was.
Could you respond to this contradiction in your beliefs?

The Shroud of Turin

http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com/2015/11/were-struck-in-face-6-bible-and-shroud.html

"Jesus was struck at the head and spat upon (Matt. 26:68, 27:30; Mark 14:65, 15:19; Luke 22:63-64; John 18:22, 19:3). The image on the Shroud shows a bruised face, a broken nose and a swollen right eye that is almost closed." (Guerrera, V., 2001, "The Shroud of Turin: A Case for Authenticity," TAN: Rockford IL, p.38. Italics original)

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

So you claim we are saved by the death of Jesus and not His life?

That is one way. As I said we can come to the truth in many ways.

I was saying we are to worship in spirit and truth, not that we aren't.

Okay, but it didn't read that way.

How is it that you say yes, we are saved by the death of Jesus, but then when asked how you redirect to a whole different thread? If that is what you believe then you should be able to explain why with scripture.

Thread etiquette, I don't like derailing other people's threads.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

The life for ransom that Jesus gave was to lay down his life to do the will of God, and in doing so he was able to save as many who would believe in the word of God that he was preaching, we are saved through Christ, through faith by the grace of God, reconciled to God by his word, not by the natural death of Jesus. Jesus was murdered by wicked men, and Jesus said, this is your hour and the power of darkness, God isn't darkness, he is light, satan is the power darkness. The parable of the wicked vine dressers is about Jesus, and God wanted them to reverence him not murder him. And they were cast out for doing so.

The blood isn't the natural blood from the natural cross, but rather the blood we drink which is taking his life in. Jesus said if we don't eat his flesh and drink his blood we have no life in us, this isn't natural, it's Spiritual. The life is in the blood and to have life we have to have the blood of Christ within us and we do that by taking into our hearts the life and teachings of Jesus and then we live them out. It's this blood that cleanses us from sin, changing and cleaning our hearts through the power of the Spirit.

If the death of Jesus saves us, why didn't Jesus and the 12 apostles preach this?

The true cross that Paul speaks about, is the cross that Christ Jesus bore, the same cross that he tells us to take up when we follow him, and Jesus said that those not willing to take up their cross are not worthy of him.

We are saved by his life not his death.

1 Thessalonians 2

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: WHO BOTH KILLED OUR LORD JESUS , and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; AND THEY PLEASE NOT GOD , and are contrary to all men

Why would God have to come from heaven to be crucified to save us from his own wrath? And why would he want his son to be a human sacrifice if he it didn't please him when they killed Jesus? Jesus was a living sacrifice, not a dead one.

No, God sent his son, Christ Jesus to bare witness to the truth to save as many of us sinners as would believe in the word of God, and he was murdered for doing so, thus he died for our sins. He was put to death for bringing us the truth and trying to save us sinners from sin and reconcile us to God through the gospel by the word of God.

You seem to contradict yourself? As per is bolded parts.

Christ's was the fulfilment of the sacrificial law, without His death we would not have been saved.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Don't worry, I have a powerful testimony.

Just wondering, are you one of the people directly involved with the making of that video, or maybe someone involved personally with the shroud?

No.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Jesus dying is the Greatest Love ever known.

We have to believe that his blood washes away our sins, and obeying his words is eating his flesh.

You haven't proven that shroud has the image of Christ.

I never said I did, that is again your feelings and imagination ruling your reasoning ability, the evidence is shown by other people in the documentary that you have chosen to ignore so that you can maintain your false reality.

People have been venerating/worshiping images made of stone and paper long before the shroud.

Again that is all in you imagination, no one is worshiping the shroud and no one has asked you to worship it. You are letting your unfounded fears rule your life. Jesus doesn't want you to be fearful but wants you to be free. The truth sets us free so you should have nothing to fear from a film or anything in this world.

 

[God's Truth]

I never said I did, that is again your feelings and imagination ruling your reasoning ability, the evidence is shown by other people in the documentary that you have chosen to ignore so that you can maintain your false reality. Again that is all in you imagination, no one is worshiping the shroud and no one has asked you to worship it. You are letting your unfounded fears rule your life. Jesus doesn't want you to be fearful but wants you to be free. The truth sets us free so you should have nothing to fear from a film or anything in this world.

Everything you said proves that you are the one with an imagination.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Everything you said proves that you are the one with an imagination.

Yes of course I have an imagination, we all do but I don't let my imagination rule my reasoning like you do.