WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Far away on the other side of the abyss of Hell but still not in Heaven.
Was Jesus a man of color .
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Far away on the other side of the abyss of Hell but still not in Heaven.
God's Truth
New member
YOU SAID THE RIGHTEOUS WENT TO HELL.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Yes, Abraham's side is also called Paradise and is a place in Hell:
Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ 25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Jesus also went to this place where Abraham was:
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the Gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
Jesus Himself alluded to the fact that he was going to descend to Hell after his death:
John 10:16
“I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock, and one shepherd.”
And . . .
Luke 23:43
Jesus answered [to the criminal on the cross next to] him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Paradise is the name of three different places in the Bible: Eden, a garden in Heaven, and a place where the righteous went after death. After Jesus preached in Hell Jesus resurrected and confirmed that He had as yet to ascend to Heaven, as He told Mary:
John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father, and your Father, to my God, and your God.”
Because Jesus was ceremonially clean, He could not let anyone touch Him until He had presented Himself before God. After He had done this Jesus was seen again by the women who were hurrying back from the tomb, where He then allowed them to touch Him:
Matthew 28:8-9
8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet, and worshipped him.
GT,
I would like to explain why I respect marhig highly as faithful servant.
It is because she is thorough in her Jesus' love teachings.
Her theory harmonize with Jesus' love even though some of her theory I don't agree.
It is not because she is non-trin.
I have many friends here who are trins, and I support them because their approach is gentle. I don't agree with much with Jacob but he is gentle Christian too.
I am not saying I understand better than anyone at all. What I am saying is she practiceswhat she believes.
I always give thanks to both trins and non trins and even non-believer to their gentle approach.
But most of us are lukewarm even though we don't spread false teaching of gospel.
Marhig is not lukewarm love chaser after God and Jesus.
peace and love.
blessings.
I would like to explain why I respect marhig highly as faithful servant.
It is because she is thorough in her Jesus' love teachings.
Her theory harmonize with Jesus' love even though some of her theory I don't agree.
It is not because she is non-trin.
I have many friends here who are trins, and I support them because their approach is gentle. I don't agree with much with Jacob but he is gentle Christian too.
I am not saying I understand better than anyone at all. What I am saying is she practiceswhat she believes.
I always give thanks to both trins and non trins and even non-believer to their gentle approach.
But most of us are lukewarm even though we don't spread false teaching of gospel.
Marhig is not lukewarm love chaser after God and Jesus.
peace and love.
blessings.
God's Truth
New member
You keep trying to nullify the truth.
The Word of God says FAR AWAY FROM HELL.
When Jesus died, HE WENT TO HELL.
You are not rightly dividing.
God's Truth
New member
You tried to put me down and say she was more faithful.
What you did was wrong.
I am faithful and you saying I am not as faithful as another is a lie. You can't put me down to build her up. If you want to put yourself down then knock yourself out.
Stop trying to interfere with my debating others. You like marhig so I am not supposed to debate her? You debate others and I don't try to stop you.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
They could see and hear each other across the Abyss, a few hundred feet at most.
marhig
Well-known member
I can get you many scriptures regarding excess wealth, but there's no point. If we have excess wealth, then how can we hold on to it whilst there are poor around us? Surely if we belong to Christ and he is in our hearts, then we will see the need in others and help. Our conscience should be picking us to give to those in need. One of the hardest things to let go of is money, it's the root of all evil because it brings many sins with it when we hold on to it and can't let go. Which many do.
And being faithful in the unrighteous mammon means that if we aren't deceitful with worldly wealth and in the ways of the world, then we won't be deceitful in the ways of God, and God can trust us with his riches which is spiritual understanding and the fruit of the Spirit, this is the true wealth that those born of God need, once we belong to him, we don't need excess money in God. God will supply our needs not our wants, the wants come from the lusts of the flesh.
And here's the rest of those verses in Matthew 5
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
marhig
Well-known member
No you haven't shown me verses that day that Jesus had to die naturally on the cross to save us.
Your just seeing it naturally and not spiritually. The cross that Jesus bore in his lifetime is the cross he suffered to bring us the truth and save us through the gospel by the word of God. And we are saved by the grace of God through faith.
And it's the same cross that we have to take up to follow him, and if we are not willing to take up our cross, then we are not worthy of him. And this doesn't mean that we have to be crucified naturally, but rather we are to partake in the sufferings of Christ and live by the will of God and this is possible through Christ by the power of the Spirit within those who belong to Christ Jesus helping them to to endure the suffering by strengthening them if they remain in God's goodness, live by God's will and truly follow Jesus.
God's Truth
New member
It is not a natural death to die on the cross.
No.
Grace is believing are sins are washed away by his blood that was SHED ON THE CROSS.
Jesus had to be sacrificed, killed. I gave you many scriptures explaining that.
God's Truth
New member
I can get you many scriptures regarding excess wealth, but there's no point. If we have excess wealth, then how can we hold on to it whilst there are poor around us? Surely if we belong to Christ and he is in our hearts, then we will see the need in others and help. Our conscience should be picking us to give to those in need. One of the hardest things to let go of is money, it's the root of all evil because it brings many sins with it when we hold on to it and can't let go. Which many do.
And being faithful in the unrighteous mammon means that if we aren't deceitful with worldly wealth and in the ways of the world, then we won't be deceitful in the ways of God, and God can trust us with his riches which is spiritual understanding and the fruit of the Spirit, this is the true wealth that those born of God need, once we belong to him, we don't need excess money in God. God will supply our needs not our wants, the wants come from the lusts of the flesh.
And here's the rest of those verses in Matthew 5
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
You miss the point. Are you trying to say you had wealth and you gave it all away and now you and your children and grandchildren are homeless and broke? No? Now leave me alone about it because you prove you are just speaking against the truth.
marhig
Well-known member
That's the cross that Jesus bore GT not the natural cross. And we too have to take up our cross to follow him.
Anyway we don't agree, so I'll leave it there thanks.
marhig
Well-known member
No I'm talking about excess wealth, more than we need.
And yes of course I'll leave you alone, but you don't have to speak to me either, I'm not forcing you to.
God's Truth
New member
A person can have excessive wealth as long as they do good with it.
God's Truth
New member
Again, and again, and again...Jesus had to DIE, to be killed, to be sacrificed.
If he did not, then no one could be saved.