Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

[Caino]

I said
Oatmeal is following the rules of believing. The same as I do.
It takes a special blessing to be able to do this. Not to even think beyond what is written. And not to add one word to the verses or take one word away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

And if you cant believe that God wrote the bible, you cant consentrate fully.

Then Squeaky, there is nothing about your argument that would have allowed you to believe in Jesus of Nazareth had you been a Jew while Jesus was on the earth using your same closed minded thinking because the Jews have sound, scripture based reasons as to why they reject Jesus then and now.

My faith is in God, I take writings about God with the understanding that humans aren't perfect.

 

[Caino]

I did not say God wrote it. You do need to check out my thread on II Timothy 2:15.

God authored scripture, it is God's words that holy men of God wrote down as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (God) II Peter 1:21



The scriptures are holy because God, who is holy, authored them



Moses was not a priest, however, his brother Aaron became a priest. Moses was a Levite.

Moses received his authority and power from God, just like Jesus Christ did.

Moses foretold of a prophet like unto Moses, who God would raise up from among his brethren. Jesus was that prophet.

Acts 3:22 Peter believed that Jesus was that prophet and that Moses was a prophet who had the God given authority to proclaim God's words prophetically.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus did not speak of his own, but rather that which the Lord God had him to speak, just like Moses.

A prophet's ministry, his authority, his power comes from God only, not himself.



Thank you! That is probably the highest compliment I could ever receive.

God's ways are better than my ways, God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts, I choose God's thoughts, not mine.

Again, I thank you.

Man is so tempted to apply undue reverence to church writings, it is so tempting to make a golden calf out of scripture thus stunting any possible revelation of any new truth. That was the predicament that the proud Pharisees found themselves in when confounded with the very purpose of their long faith struggle, the Son of God standing before them.

I understand your position and oddly sympathize with it. I could point out the evolution of thought in the OT writings such as Samuel's belief that God moved David to number Israel only to have the Chronicler change that to Satan moving David and God not being happy about it.....but you are in the same position with me that the Pharisee's were with Jesus, fear of the "slippery slope" of acknowledging human imperfection of holy writings.

Myself, my faith in God is not disturbed by my belief that there are many factual and historic errors in the Bible. To me the Bible is what we should expect it to be.

 

[oatmeal]

Man is so tempted to apply undue reverence to church writings, it is so tempting to make a golden calf out of scripture thus stunting any possible revelation of any new truth. That was the predicament that the proud Pharisees found themselves in when confounded with the very purpose of their long faith struggle, the Son of God standing before them.

I understand your position and oddly sympathize with it. I could point out the evolution of thought in the OT writings such as Samuel's belief that God moved David to number Israel only to have the Chronicler change that to Satan moving David and God not being happy about it.....but you are in the same position with me that the Pharisee's were with Jesus, fear of the "slippery slope" of acknowledging human imperfection of holy writings.

Myself, my faith in God is not disturbed by my belief that there are many factual and historic errors in the Bible. To me the Bible is what we should expect it to be.

God is perfect, therefore all his works are perfect.

His works include His words, the scripture.

God is perfect, therefore His word is perfect, every word in His word is perfect.

It is flawless and inherently perfectly accurate.

What is inaccurate is man's opinions.

Proverbs 3:5-6

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Man is so tempted to apply undue reverence to church writings, it is so tempting to make a golden calf out of scripture thus stunting any possible revelation of any new truth. That was the predicament that the proud Pharisees found themselves in when confounded with the very purpose of their long faith struggle, the Son of God standing before them.

I understand your position and oddly sympathize with it. I could point out the evolution of thought in the OT writings such as Samuel's belief that God moved David to number Israel only to have the Chronicler change that to Satan moving David and God not being happy about it.....but you are in the same position with me that the Pharisee's were with Jesus, fear of the "slippery slope" of acknowledging human imperfection of holy writings.

Myself, my faith in God is not disturbed by my belief that there are many factual and historic errors in the Bible. To me the Bible is what we should expect it to be.

Your faith is in the Urantia Book not the Bible. You're a UFO Cultist.

 

[Zeke]

I did not say God wrote it. You do need to check out my thread on II Timothy 2:15.

God authored scripture, it is God's words that holy men of God wrote down as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (God) II Peter 1:21



The scriptures are holy because God, who is holy, authored them



Moses was not a priest, however, his brother Aaron became a priest. Moses was a Levite.

Moses received his authority and power from God, just like Jesus Christ did.

Moses foretold of a prophet like unto Moses, who God would raise up from among his brethren. Jesus was that prophet.

Acts 3:22 Peter believed that Jesus was that prophet and that Moses was a prophet who had the God given authority to proclaim God's words prophetically.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus did not speak of his own, but rather that which the Lord God had him to speak, just like Moses.

A prophet's ministry, his authority, his power comes from God only, not himself.



Thank you! That is probably the highest compliment I could ever receive.

God's ways are better than my ways, God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts, I choose God's thoughts, not mine.

Again, I thank you.

The theme of all scripture is an outward story dramatized in two individuals/states of mind Galatians 4:24-26 that show the transition from adolescents to graduation from the body of flesh, that is a state of mind Matt 11:11.

This conflict is shown in Romans seven by these two states of mind in conflict, same with every story which is all about Luke 17:20-21, and that teaching was the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow etc.........

There is only Jew and Gentile, Male and Female in the literal dogmas of theologically which separate them 2Cor 3:6, the more excellent way has neither because all things are one in the Christ mind/state.

 

[Caino]

God is perfect, therefore all his works are perfect.

His works include His words, the scripture.

God is perfect, therefore His word is perfect, every word in His word is perfect.

It is flawless and inherently perfectly accurate.

What is inaccurate is man's opinions.

Proverbs 3:5-6

I agree Gods Word is perfect, but his Word is the Living Word, the spirit of which may be translated in the written Word.

I don't trust the dubious historical accounts of those who killed Jesus after elevating themselves above all other nations whom they considered to be "Gentile dogs", who still wait in vain for a Jewish Messiah fashioned in their own image.

The Zionist are failed prophets.

 

[Squeaky]

Then Squeaky, there is nothing about your argument that would have allowed you to believe in Jesus of Nazareth had you been a Jew while Jesus was on the earth using your same closed minded thinking because the Jews have sound, scripture based reasons as to why they reject Jesus then and now.

My faith is in God, I take writings about God with the understanding that humans aren't perfect.

I said
There is your problem. You compare us with the beginners who didn't have the Holy Spirit. You intellectuals got all these rules that are not in scripture. And that brings up logic that isn't according to scripture.


John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)

 

[Caino]

Your faith is in the Urantia Book not the Bible. You're a UFO Cultist.

Well it is true that the UB is much more up to date and factually accurate, but even that explains that revelation is always relative to the age and conceptual ability of people understand. After Jesus left Paul brought his own religious opinions into the mix which has left people confused.

 

[Squeaky]

God is perfect, therefore all his works are perfect.

His works include His words, the scripture.

God is perfect, therefore His word is perfect, every word in His word is perfect.

It is flawless and inherently perfectly accurate.

What is inaccurate is man's opinions.

Proverbs 3:5-6

I said
Your right. There is this weakness that flows through the carnal mind, they cant over come. Its called interpretation. They must interpret which is also perversion of the Word. They get hung up on reason and logic--carnal. The stories are in the milk understanding. The interpretations are in the milk understanding. The theologies are in the milk understanding. In the meat understanding it is all the Word of God from God.

 

[Caino]

I said
There is your problem. You compare us with the beginners who didn't have the Holy Spirit. You intellectuals got all these rules that are not in scripture. And that brings up logic that isn't according to scripture.


John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)

You have an inferiority complex and appear to be uneducated. Your way of thinking keeps you in fanatical ignorance.

 

[Squeaky]

Well it is true that the UB is much more up to date and factually accurate, but even that explains that revelation is always relative to the age and conceptual ability of people understand. After Jesus left Paul brought his own religious opinions into the mix which has left people confused.

I said
You have some very poor logic. Everything Jesus spoke He spoke in parables. Everything the apostles spoke was the milk understanding of what Jesus spoke. And they all said to find the Holy Spirit and He will teach you the meat understanding.

Matt 13:34
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
(NKJ)

1 Cor 3:2-3
2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
(NKJ)

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

Its not a bunch of stories. Its the hidden language of the Spirit. Read my thread on the Holy Spirit milk and meat. It has the hidden language of the Spirit on there also.

 

[God's Truth]

I said
Jesus is not God. God is not Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. They are all three different. Three different Spirits in three different places at the same time.

Matt 3:16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

The three are one and the same.

If there are three different and separate persons, as you say, then God is not One.

 

[Bright Raven]

I said
Your wrong, I was not told this is a trin website.

OK then, Try reading the TOL Statement of Faith. That ought to give you a hint on where they are coming from.

 

[Caino]

Suppose one stood in the middle of Jesrusalem in 1 BC and looked up into heaven conceptualizing the One God and you asked them " How many divine persons are in heaven"? They would say 1 of coarse.

Suppose then that after Jesus ascended into heaven you asked Thomas how many divine persons are up in heaven??

The answer is at least 2. Nowhere in Old Testiment Judaism will you find the Father with his Son at his right hand, for the simple reason that this fact had not been revealed in Judaism.

Oh my gosh is it hard to teach religious people anything new!!!

 

[Squeaky]

The three are one and the same.

If there are three different and separate persons, as you say, then God is not One.

I said
They are three different. And only one of them is God. That would be the Father. Just as Jesus and Paul told us.


Luke 17:1-3
1 Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!
2 "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

OK then, Try reading the TOL Statement of Faith. That ought to give you a hint on where they are coming from.

I said
I have no choice, I am a born again Christian led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

I said
They are three different. And only one of them is God. That would be the Father. Just as Jesus and Paul told us.


Luke 17:1-3
1 Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!
2 "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

They are not different. They are the same.

 

[Squeaky]

Suppose one stood in the middle of Jesrusalem in 1 BC and looked up into heaven conceptualizing the One God and you asked them " How many divine persons are in heaven"? They would say 1 of coarse.

Suppose then that after Jesus ascended into heaven you asked Thomas how many divine persons are up in heaven??

The answer is at least 2. Nowhere in Old Testiment Judaism will you find the Father with his Son at his right hand, for the simple reason that this fact had not been revealed in Judaism.

Oh my gosh is it hard to teach religious people anything new!!!

I said
The devil deceives with the maybe's, and supposes, and the whole imagination. A born again Christian has gotten rid of the imagination. So I cant follow any supposes.



2 Cor 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(KJV)

 

[Squeaky]

They are not different. They are the same.

I said
Three different Spirits in three different places, all at the same time.

Matt 3:16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

 

[Totton Linnet]

I said
That is exactly what you just done. You used your human understanding. Your denying that it was only Jesus who came in the flesh. It was not God.

II Jn 1:7
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
(NKJ)

Denying the Father and the Son is antichrist....There is only one Saviour God.

How can it be human intellect? it goes against human intellect. Human intellect denies that God is three and yet one.


...that comes by revelation.