toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

[Totton Linnet]

I have seen Christ pleased with one thing only...faith

 

[glorydaz]

You claim that you are not labouring to enter the rest, but that you have already entered the rest.

So, you are napping instead of serving.

When the master returns and finds you napping, He will not be well pleased.

I really don't expect the natural man to understand what it means to have entered into rest, but the spiritual man knows exactly what I'm talking about. It means to walk in faith, trusting the Lord to lead and guide you throughout each moment of the day. There is no striving in the walk of faith, there is only yielding to the Holy Spirit's still small voice. It's allowing Christ to live in you, and because HE lives in me, I have perfect peace and full confidence in HIM...not in myself.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

When you enter into rest, all your doubts and fears will pass away....whether you be in the middle of LA or in deepest darkest Africa.


You might actually try reading these verses instead of claiming I'm "napping" since you have no idea what I do with my day, and making such statements really only makes you look like a fool.

Psalm 37:7-8
Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Psalm 37:23-31
The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed. Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore. For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever. The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment. The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Who is this parable about? a servant or a son? there is a great deal of difference between a servant and a son

The parable is about the servants of Jesus Christ, of course.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,​

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:​

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.​

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:​

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:​

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

 

[glorydaz]

As you refuse to address what you said you would and continue to deflect and divert, I see no reason to continue this discussion, and YES, I get to decide, because I posted it and you responded to it. I KNOW your entire outlook because I've seen it many times on many forums.
You and your ilk have no idea WHY God created us and our world. He doesn't NEED us, we need Him. He doesn't want puppets, He wants proactive believers to use the free will He created us with, and DEMONSTRATE our belief and commitment. He's NOT looking for couch potatoes believers. He's looking for believers who PRACTISE what they preach. Who WALK the WALK.

That's quite a light you shine, Stan the MAN. :chuckle:

It would be better if you learned to humble yourself in the sight of the Lord instead of trying to strut your stuff across the stage hoping to impress others with something you clearly do NOT have.

 

[Angel4Truth]

As you refuse to address what you said you would and continue to deflect and divert, I see no reason to continue this discussion, and YES, I get to decide, because I posted it and you responded to it. I KNOW your entire outlook because I've seen it many times on many forums.
You and your ilk have no idea WHY God created us and our world. He doesn't NEED us, we need Him. He doesn't want puppets, He wants proactive believers to use the free will He created us with, and DEMONSTRATE our belief and commitment. He's NOT looking for couch potatoes believers. He's looking for believers who PRACTISE what they preach. Who WALK the WALK.

Thats where you clearly do not know what you speak.

God is love, love HAS to be shared. So yes, He does need us, or we wouldn't be here and Christ would not have died for us. We were created for LOVE and fellowship.

That happened because of Love - which is what God is.

 

[glorydaz]

The parable is about the servants of Jesus Christ, of course.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,​

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:​

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.​

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:​

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:​

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

Such lack of discernment is hard to bear. It's easy to look up a word and see all the places it's written in the Bible and it's quite another to understand what is being said in it's context. So now you have a problem, don't you? Paul says here we are no longer servants but sons. Whatcha' gonna do now, of natural man?

Galatians 4:7
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Such lack of discernment is hard to bear. It's easy to look up a word and see all the places it's written in the Bible and it's quite another to understand what is being said in it's context.

Yes, your lack of discernment is hard to bear.

In a single letter, Paul says that the Galatians are no longer servants, but sons.
Throughout the rest of the New Testament the believers refer to themselves as servants of Jesus Christ.

The reason the believers referred to themselves as the servants of Jesus Christ is because they considered themselves to be obedient to His Will.

The main reason anyone would object to being called a servant of Jesus Christ is because that person is refusing to be obedient to His Will. Such a person is called one of the children of Disobedience in scripture, and is not a son of Jesus.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The parable is about the servants of Jesus Christ, of course.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,​

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:​

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.​

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:​

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:​

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

*
Do you not see here a clear distinction between those who were saved and who were served and those who were called into ministry [and the discipleship thereof] in order to serve those were saved.

Has the church ever consisted only of ministers? those especially called to serve. Therefore I would say that salvation and discipleship are two clear different things...all may and shoul be witnesses.

Doesn't this make sense to ALL those teachings of the Lord concerning discipleship?

But we must square it with Pul's teaching on salvation by grace alone through faith not of ourselves.

 

[genuineoriginal]

*
Do you not see here a clear distinction between those who were saved and who were served and those who were called into ministry [and the discipleship thereof] in order to serve those were saved.

So, you believe the parable was only for those that were called into ministry, and they are the only ones in danger of being cast into outer darkness?

Has the church ever consisted only of ministers? those especially called to serve.

Yes.

But we must square it with Pul's teaching on salvation by grace alone through faith not of ourselves.

Yes.

Jesus is well pleased (Grace) with those who prove their steadfastness (faith) and gives them salvation.

1 Peter 1:6-9 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.​

 

[StanJ53]

For the 100th time....the wilted fig tree was speaking of the judgment coming upon Israel for denying their Messiah. And it's the very people who claim they DO great things in Jesus' name who Jesus will say He never knew. It's the will of God that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ....we strive to enter in and then we are to REST IN HIM. Thus we are HIS workmanship, and can in no way take ANY CREDIT for our saving or our keeping.

This is really quite a simple concept folks. You are not saved or kept by anything you do, but by receiving the gift and allowing HIM to do whatever He desires with you and through you and to you. Yield, surrender, rest NOT strive, work, and worry.

I did some research on this issue and I accept that this explanation of the withered fig tree is a symbolic or metaphorical way to indicate the decline of the religious system of Judaism and an indication of God's immanent judgement on the façade of religiosity that had permeated it.
However it also represents the immanent end to the OC and the beginning of the NC. God still required His people to obey HIS law but it was now one that was personal in nature and REQUIRED personal obedience. It was no longer the appearance of righteousness, but as Jesus warned in Matthew 23:23, it was a now a matter of fulfilling God's directions.

The following link offers a very good exegesis of this scripture.

Withered Fig Tree


Scripture still shows we are to do ALL we can to advance the cause of Christ. Not works FOR salvation, but works as a RESULT of salvation.

James 1:22-25
22 But be doers of the word and not merely hearers, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if someone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a person who looks at his natural face in a mirror; 24 then after looking at himself he goes away and immediately forgets what he was like. 25 But the person who looks intently into the perfect law, the law that provides liberty, and continues in it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an active doer—he will be blessed in his doing.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, your lack of discernment is hard to bear.

In a single letter, Paul says that the Galatians are no longer servants, but sons.
Throughout the rest of the New Testament the believers refer to themselves as servants of Jesus Christ.

The reason the believers referred to themselves as the servants of Jesus Christ is because they considered themselves to be obedient to His Will.

The main reason anyone would object to being called a servant of Jesus Christ is because that person is refusing to be obedient to His Will. Such a person is called one of the children of Disobedience in scripture, and is not a son of Jesus.

No, I didn't object to your use of the word servant, but of your inability to understand the scripture you posted as a response to TL's comment about being sons of God.

These kinds of comments in yellow show me that you are more interested in how others might be disobedient than in rightly understanding how believers are saved and enter into REST....which is total TRUST IN THE LORD, and NO trust in yourself. You will fail, but He never will. You will fall short, but He will not. You will miss the mark, but He won't.

Trust in the Lord in order to be saved. You don't get ANY OF THE GLORY....Christ gets ALL of it. This is a simple and very important fact.....so that in the ages to come....NO MAN CAN BOAST. We see the effects of your boasting right here because you are claiming I'm napping and you're wide awake. You give the perfect example of why salvation is a GIFT....not something man earns....because man is so prone to BOAST.

 

[StanJ53]

That's quite a light you shine, Stan the MAN. :chuckle:

It would be better if you learned to humble yourself in the sight of the Lord instead of trying to strut your stuff across the stage hoping to impress others with something you clearly do NOT have.

Don't be a hater Glory. Let me know at the judgement seat, who does NOT have what.

 

[glorydaz]

Don't be a hater Glory. Let me know at the judgement seat, who does NOT have what.

I'm letting you know right now....it will be too late for you if you wait. Rely on yourself and you are lost. Rely on the Lord and He will keep you unto the day of redemption.


If I were a "hater" as you seem to be accusing me of, then I wouldn't waste a moment on you. Since I've wasted a great deal of time on you already, it should be obvious I would love it if you were able to be fully persuaded that HE IS ABLE to save and to keep you....while you, nor any of us, can ever hope to save or keep ourselves.

 

[Totton Linnet]

So, you believe the parable was only for those that were called into ministry, and they are the only ones in danger of being cast into outer darkness?
I don't really accept that they are the church, I do not believe the sheep in the judgement told in Matt.25 are the church. They were judged by how they ministered to [the goats how they neglected to minister] to the church "...the least of one of these My brethren" who are the church.

So I believe the servants [the people of this age] are given talents which they could use to further the kingdom...or not.

Yes.
If you look at any epistle you see the exhortations and encouragements to serve none of which involved salvation [except people read that into them] either the gaining of or the loss of. They are just that exhortations and encouragement...seeing we have have this great salvation, this mutual inheritance.


Yes.
How does it square? Paul say if salvation is of works then it is no longer of grace but wages.

Jesus is well pleased (Grace) with those who prove their steadfastness (faith) and gives them salvation.
This does not look like scripture, it looks like YOU. I say if you are gone back to works as a means to salvation then you HAVE disproved your faith, you are not being steadfast in the faith...you are no longer resting in Christ but resting in having done enough....or something

1 Peter 1:6-9 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: Why did you start at 6? vs 5 says "who are kept by the power of God wherein ye greatly rejoice....." but you say we must keep ourselves by doing good works 7 That the trial of your faith But I say your faith has failed the trial...you have replace it with works being much more precious than of gold that perisheth As opposed to faith which is IMperishable...but you say it may perish though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: If we have these things [and I do, and always have since I was saved] what can make us doubt? we have peace. 9 Receiving the end of your faith even the salvation of your souls. Look at that it is a present tense recieving of something in the future...we have it "the end of our faith even the salvation of our souls"​

With such assurance as that how can we ever doubt again?

 

[godrulz]

I don't know how much clearer it can be.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The present tense for hear is a continuous action. Those who hear/believe (justification) and continue to hear/believe (perseverance) are/will be saved. This is an implicit condition in the bigger context. Calvinists make much of this proof text which is true for believers (those who believe/continue to believe unto death), but it does not apply to unbelievers nor does it continue to apply to apostates.

We agree on the security and salvation of believers, but disagree as to whether apostasy/falling away is possible or not. I affirm biblical love, relationship, freedom, while you are the deterministic iRobot version.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You lost that wager already.

This is what Other stands for:

Acts 24:14-15 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.​

Actually, I won the wager! You presented two Scriptures but,
still didn't answer the question! Which isn't surprising! You don't
want others to judge you to harshly, when they find out you're,
a bit unorthodox!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

That's quite a light you shine, Stan the MAN. :chuckle:

It would be better if you learned to humble yourself in the sight of the Lord instead of trying to strut your stuff across the stage hoping to impress others with something you clearly do NOT have.

Glory, Stan's quite the guy! He's not to bright but, he sure makes
up for it with his grandiose bravado!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yes, your lack of discernment is hard to bear.

In a single letter, Paul says that the Galatians are no longer servants, but sons.
Throughout the rest of the New Testament the believers refer to themselves as servants of Jesus Christ.

The reason the believers referred to themselves as the servants of Jesus Christ is because they considered themselves to be obedient to His Will.

The main reason anyone would object to being called a servant of Jesus Christ is because that person is refusing to be obedient to His Will. Such a person is called one of the children of Disobedience in scripture, and is not a son of Jesus.

You're the one who lacks discernment my silly, know it all friend!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Don't be a hater Glory. Let me know at the judgement seat, who does NOT have what.

Well, aren't you just about the most silliest guy on this thread?

 

[glorydaz]

The present tense for hear is a continuous action. Those who hear/believe (justification) and continue to hear/believe (perseverance) are/will be saved. This is an implicit condition in the bigger context. Calvinists make much of this proof text which is true for believers (those who believe/continue to believe unto death), but it does not apply to unbelievers nor does it continue to apply to apostates.

We agree on the security and salvation of believers, but disagree as to whether apostasy/falling away is possible or not. I affirm biblical love, relationship, freedom, while you are the deterministic iRobot version.

We obviously disagree that HE IS ABLE to keep us unto the day of redemption. I am fully persuaded that when the Holy Spirit circumcises our heart, His work in us WILL BE finished as we are being conformed into His image and it does not yet appear what we shall be. You obviously think God circumcises a heart that has NOT been fully persuaded. You also think man's will is greater than God's....that Jesus will lose some of His own and not keep them from falling. Your trust then is in man and not in God, and you claim man's free will is greater than God's power by which we are kept.

And, what I find especially interesting is you think you are not susceptible to apostasy, but others who have been born of God are. That is the height of presumption.