toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

[StanJ53]

Speaking of context and entire body of Scripture, you jerk a verse out of context and then rail on me for not considering all the Word. The subject is unbelief and the failure to enter into the promised land. The day being spoken of is the DAY OF SALVATION. I have been saved and I have entered into rest. It's you that still wanders around in the wilderness afraid of all those giants.

Heb. 3:14-19
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Now, go and read chapter four and maybe you'll see that those who believe DO ENTER into the rest. We rest because we believed unto salvation. Thus we have passed from death unto life. Cross over the river Jordan, and you, too, can enter in. Or, you can stand at the shore and worry about all those giants on the other side.

Yes here IS the context:

Be careful, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partners of Christ, if in fact we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end. 15 As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”


You don't even SEE it when you read it or quote it. That's pretty sad Glory.

 

[IMJerusha]

Sad for you. I have passed from death unto life. That's the difference between those who have full assurance of their salvation and those who don't. I have peace and rest and you must continue to strive to enter in.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

If I may:
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This is what should be highlighted in this passage. And when we consider and believe God's and Yeshua's words, the fullness and understanding of God's covenant through Yeshua becomes clear.
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "
AND
"Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
AND
"Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, 'May you never bear fruit again!' Immediately the tree withered."

To say that those who believe Scripture as we do are sad people without assurance of salvation is both wrong and rude, for we have assurance through Yeshua and Ruach HaKodesh who has the power to lead us in righteousness if we listen to Him and obey.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Sad for you. I have passed from death unto life. That's the difference between those who have full assurance of their salvation and those who don't. I have peace and rest

You think you have attained the promise, so you decided to take a nap? That is the quickest way to miss out on the promise.

Mark 13:35-37 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.​

1 Thessalonians 5:6 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.​

Hebrews 4:11 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.​

Philippians 2:12 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

2 Corinthians 13:5 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?​

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:​

 

[genuineoriginal]

you cannot claim Romans 11 is talking about individual salvation. If you want to claim Romans 11 teaches someone can lose their salvation then you shouldn't be trying to teach anything, for you fail miserably.

Paul is talking about individual salvation in these verses.

Romans 11:17-24 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?​

If you refuse to heed the warning, then you have failed miserably.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Just reciprocating GM. Did you forget about the law of sowing and reaping?

Sowing and reaping is quite different. What you did was, vengeance!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yes here IS the context:

Be careful, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partners of Christ, if in fact we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end. 15 As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”


You don't even SEE it when you read it or quote it. That's pretty sad Glory.

What's sad is your lack of, true discernment in the presence
of truth!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Paul is talking about individual salvation in these verses.

Romans 11:17-24 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?​

If you refuse to heed the warning, then you have failed miserably.

GEN-O, you speak mighty confidant for a "Christian "Other"!" I'm curious what the, other stands for? I'll wager you won't reply to that question.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If I may:
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This is what should be highlighted in this passage. And when we consider and believe God's and Yeshua's words, the fullness and understanding of God's covenant through Yeshua becomes clear.
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "
AND
"Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
AND
"Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, 'May you never bear fruit again!' Immediately the tree withered."

To say that those who believe Scripture as we do are sad people without assurance of salvation is both wrong and rude, for we have assurance through Yeshua and Ruach HaKodesh who has the power to lead us in righteousness if we listen to Him and obey.

IMJ, Do you believe you can lose your salvation? Are you confidant in your eternal destination?

 

[glorydaz]

Yes here IS the context:

Be careful, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partners of Christ, if in fact we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end. 15 As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”


You don't even SEE it when you read it or quote it. That's pretty sad Glory.

I see the very important word TODAY. If you HEAR His voice (through the preaching of the Gospel), and do not harden your heart, you, too, will have endured to the DAY OF SALVATION.

I see it says that it is the UNBELIEVING HEART that turns away from the living God. So your point is what?

Again, this is speaking of the day of salvation. The day of salvation is the day the unbelieving heart believes. That sounds quite clear and simple to me, Stan. In fact, it is the Gospel you should be preaching instead of the false one of striving by your own efforts to keep yourself saved. We STRIVE TO ENTER IN through the straight gate and then we find rest.

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Where is the rest in your soul if you think you have to strive to remain saved?

Matthew 11:28-29
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[glorydaz]

Sowing and reaping is quite different. What you did was, vengeance!

And, indeed, GM....Stan WAS THE SOURCE of that "fruit." Clearly there is fruit of the flesh and fruit of the Spirit and Stan can't tell the difference.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I see the very important word TODAY. If you HEAR His voice (through the preaching of the Gospel), and do not harden your heart, you, too, will have endured to the DAY OF SALVATION.

I see it says that it is the UNBELIEVING HEART that turns away from the living God. So your point is what?

Again, this is speaking of the day of salvation. The day of salvation is the day the unbelieving heart believes. That sounds quite clear and simple to me, Stan. In fact, it is the Gospel you should be preaching instead of the false one of striving by your own efforts to keep yourself saved. We STRIVE TO ENTER IN through the straight gate and then we find rest.

Luke 19:9
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Where is the rest in your soul if you think you have to strive to remain saved?

Matthew 11:28-29
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Excellent post! The naysayers will deny the truth in it, however,
truth stands uncorrected!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

And, indeed, GM....Stan WAS THE SOURCE of that "fruit." Clearly there is fruit of the flesh and fruit of the Spirit and Stan can't tell the difference.

There are a few others around here who are in the same boat as Stan!

 

[glorydaz]

You think you have attained the promise, so you decided to take a nap? That is the quickest way to miss out on the promise.

Mark 13:35-37 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.​

1 Thessalonians 5:6 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.​

Hebrews 4:11 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.​

Philippians 2:12 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

2 Corinthians 13:5 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?​

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:​

Ah, you think you have some special power to see across the miles that I'm "napping" or a "couch potato" as Stan claims? You guys are just totally amazing. :chuckle:

Yes, you most certainly should examine yourself whether you be in the faith....I suggest all those who have no assurance of their salvation to do likewise. This is a simple case of having NO understanding of what it means to have entered into rest. I'm not surprised since there is NO ASSURANCE of salvation, either.

These people claim they have to add to the work of the cross in order to receive and keep that free gift of eternal life. :nono:


So we see the same old story...taking one verse out of it's context and forming a doctrine of fear and loss. You had to skip right over Heb. 4:2-3 to post the one you did from Hebrews. Hop, skip, and jump through Scripture and this is what you get. You've done the same with every other verse you posted, but I guess your eyes are blind to everything except where you might possibly find something about loss. You guys are a bunch of LOSERS. :chuckle:

Pay close attention. Unto us was the Gospel preached....it did not profit them as it was not mixed with faith. "We which have believed DO ENTER INTO REST." Get it? Those with faith cease from their OWN efforts and enter into rest. You should be happy because that is the GOOD NEWS. It's also why we have a PEACE that passes all understanding. Apparently, it's passed right by your understanding.

Heb. 4:2-3
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Ah, you think you have some special power to see across the miles that I'm "napping" or a "couch potato" as Stan claims? You guys are just totally amazing. :chuckle:

Yes, you most certainly should examine yourself whether you be in the faith....I suggest all those who have no assurance of their salvation to do likewise. This is a simple case of having NO understanding of what it means to have entered into rest. I'm not surprised since there is NO ASSURANCE of salvation, either.

These people claim they have to add to the work of the cross in order to receive and keep that free gift of eternal life. :nono:


So we see the same old story...taking one verse out of it's context and forming a doctrine of fear and loss. You had to skip right over Heb. 4:2-3 to post the one you did from Hebrews. Hop, skip, and jump through Scripture and this is what you get. You've done the same with every other verse you posted, but I guess your eyes are blind to everything except where you might possibly find something about loss. You guys are a bunch of LOSERS. :chuckle:

Pay close attention. Unto us was the Gospel preached....it did not profit them as it was not mixed with faith. "We which have believed DO ENTER INTO REST." Get it? Those with faith cease from their OWN efforts and enter into rest. You should be happy because that is the GOOD NEWS. It's also why we have a PEACE that passes all understanding. Apparently, it's passed right by your understanding.

Heb. 4:2-3
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Again, excellent

 

[glorydaz]

If I may:
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

This is what should be highlighted in this passage. And when we consider and believe God's and Yeshua's words, the fullness and understanding of God's covenant through Yeshua becomes clear.
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "
AND
"Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
AND
"Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, 'May you never bear fruit again!' Immediately the tree withered."

To say that those who believe Scripture as we do are sad people without assurance of salvation is both wrong and rude, for we have assurance through Yeshua and Ruach HaKodesh who has the power to lead us in righteousness if we listen to Him and obey.

For the 100th time....the wilted fig tree was speaking of the judgment coming upon Israel for denying their Messiah. And it's the very people who claim they DO great things in Jesus' name who Jesus will say He never knew. It's the will of God that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ....we strive to enter in and then we are to REST IN HIM. Thus we are HIS workmanship, and can in no way take ANY CREDIT for our saving or our keeping.

This is really quite a simple concept folks. You are not saved or kept by anything you do, but by receiving the gift and allowing HIM to do whatever He desires with you and through you and to you. Yield, surrender, rest NOT strive, work, and worry.

 

[genuineoriginal]

GEN-O, you speak mighty confidant for a "Christian "Other"!" I'm curious what the, other stands for? I'll wager you won't reply to that question.

You lost that wager already.

This is what Other stands for:

Acts 24:14-15 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Ah, you think you have some special power to see across the miles that I'm "napping"

You claim that you are not labouring to enter the rest, but that you have already entered the rest.

So, you are napping instead of serving.

When the master returns and finds you napping, He will not be well pleased.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Labouring to enter His rest

Considering how many are decieved into believing that salvation is dependent upon good works I would say this labouring to enter into His rest is quite a fight of faith. The work is done, finished, Jesus is sat down, our salvation complete.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Labouring to enter His rest

Considering how many are decieved into believing that salvation is dependent upon good works I would say this labouring to enter into His rest is quite a fight of faith. The work is done, finished, Jesus is sat down, our salvation complete.

Salvation is not dependent upon us doing good works.

Salvation is dependent on Jesus being well pleased with us when He returns.

Matthew 25:14-30 14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. 15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. 16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. 17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. 18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. 20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. 21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. 22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. 23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. 24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. 26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: 27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. 28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. 29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.​

 

[Totton Linnet]

Who is this parable about? a servant or a son? there is a great deal of difference between a servant and a son