Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I don't believe in annihilation myself. I'm more in line with 'universal salvation' although I'm interested as to what leads to annihilation in your view? Is it simply unbelief?
toldailytopic: Hell, what is it really like?
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I don't believe in annihilation myself. I'm more in line with 'universal salvation' although I'm interested as to what leads to annihilation in your view? Is it simply unbelief?
Krsto
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Well then you would have two options for that verse in question, both of which are consistent with annhialationism:
1) God is the one viewing them with eternal contempt
2) Men who are alive view those who have ended their life in the grave rather than continue to live in glory are viewed with contempt (note - something that lasts as long as the human race lasts fits in with the biblical definition of the word(s) that are translated "eternal.")
Krsto
Well-known member
No, it's the Word. See my long post quoting Ed Christian, for starters. Besides that:
1) Lack of evidence in the Word for eternal suffering.
2) Eternal suffering is contrary to biblical concepts of justice.
3) The bible does not talk about heaven vs. hell, but of life vs. death. The wages of sin is death. Jesus came to give life.
4) We all have an inner witness that the idea of eternal torment for a lifetime of sinning is wrong.
5) This doctrine has caused more people to go to hell than any other I can think of.
Flipper
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You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Granite again
Which Hell? I hear the one in Norway is pretty nice, cold though.
You mean like furries? Because they are kinda pathetic.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Yes, I read it. Regarding eternal suffering or torment I obviously agree but what essentially causes people to have life beyond death? We all die in the physical sense...
Krsto
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Yeah, Miss Norway, who was born in Hell, went on to be Miss Universe, the only Norwegian to make it to the top.
She was the beauty queen from Hell.
Krsto
Well-known member
Only God is intrinsically immortal or incorruptible:
ASV 1 Timothy 6:16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.
Immortality or incorruptness is something Christians are hoping to attain to:
Romans 2:7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
God grants immortality or incorruptness which means it is not automatically part of man's intrinsic nature:
Darn, can't find that one - but it's there!
This one's pretty close:
ASV 2 Timothy 1:10 but hath now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
JEREMIAH 51:39 & 57
39.) In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.
57.) And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.
DEAD, THE GRAVE, PERPETUAL SLEEP AND NOT WAKE.
.
One Eyed Jack
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I've often thought it would be something like my job, only with no relief when the shift was up. Also, I never work in an environment over 280 degrees, and rarely above 120, so I imagine it would be a lot hotter as well.
elohiym
Well-known member
For starters, it contains a lot of figurative language and symbolism, just like most prophecies. So you need to be careful with a literal interpretation. For example, will the righteous literally shine like the firmament and literally be like stars. Obviously not.
Sleep means the first death. Awake means resurrection. Shame and everlasting contempt describes the state of the carnal mind, which is to say the they will be unconverted when they are raised, just as they were unconverted before they died. Here is an example of "shame and everlasting contempt:"
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
It is shame and contempt for yourself without beginning and end. That's the state of mind of someone in unbelief when they are raised from the grave at the judgment.
I don't think God will induce amnesia. :idunno:
But you would have peace if they were eternally tormented by God in a place called hell? :squint:
That's awesome.
Krsto
Well-known member
Kudos elohiym.
It seems if people deep down in their heart really believed that one of their loved ones was going to spend eternity in agony they would stop short of NOTHING to get that person saved and if they couldn't they would forever feel guilty for not doing enough.
I just wonder if anybody here really believes that God would do that?
And furthermore, will we get any honest answers?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
So it is only Christians who are likely to attain immortality then? After physical death in your opinion? Is it only the few who have hope? I certainly relate on the one level because eternal torment of any kind is obscene and a complete anathema to love etc but this is also despairing on some levels as well IMO.
I need to find some verses myself but what about this?
1 Tim 4:10
Keep telling yourself that. :wave2:
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Well, tell us what you think it is Nick?
Krsto
Well-known member
I hate to answer a question with another question (well ok, I don't really) but why the labor on Paul's part if he's preaching universal salvation? Why even need evangelists unless their job is to make everyone feel good by informing them that all are saved in Christ regardless of their beliefs?
Jesus is the Savior of all men because that is who God provided for ALL men in all times and cultures, even today 2000 years later. The point is he didn't provide Jesus for just the Jews, Mohammed for those in the Middle East, Buddha for those in the East, etc. Jesus is the savior of ALL men.
Having said that I do leave open the possibility of Jesus and the Gospel being contextualized for different cultures and not exactly looking the same in the East as it does in the West.
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