toldailytopic: Hell, what is it really like?

[Arthur Brain]

Yes, and, I believe it's God's way of relating to temporal beings that there is no rest in the Lake of Fire, but that the torment is continual. Death, God's last enemy, is a spirit, just as hell is, and both will be tormented, just as The Bible says. Did you think it meant something else?

Uh. What?! Hell is a "spirit" now????! So people reside in a 'spirit' before being cast into a literal lake of fire then? Where's death amidst this? Sharpening his scythe? Oh, hang on. If you're saying the lake is metaphorical as well then that would apply to the smoke also wouldn't it? Or is the lake of fire literal? :dizzy:

 

[Aimiel]

Are believers so much more worthy of eternal life than the atheist or agnostic? Are there any 'grey areas' in your theology?

There isn't one soul who is worthy. Only Jesus lived a sinless life. Only His Blood can cleanse away sin. Without it, no one would get into Heaven.

 

[Arthur Brain]

There isn't one soul who is worthy. Only Jesus lived a sinless life. Only His Blood can cleanse away sin. Without it, no one would get into Heaven.

That was actually directed at Krsto. But regardless, without the creation of human life to begin with there could be no eternal torment for fallible creatures such as you and I. Under your theology God finds that acceptable and the *clever* ones like you manage to avoid such and advocate it for their *neighbours* who didn't find the same path. lain:

 

[Krsto]

Whilst your view is 'infinitely' more preferable to Aimiels, how do you react to negativity where it's only those who find the 'narrow path' to avoid your outcome as well? Are believers so much more worthy of eternal life than the atheist or agnostic? Are there any 'grey areas' in your theology?

The narrow path comment I think is best understood to relate to the Jews of his time. Few indeed found the Way. I don't see it as a general statement or maxim of how it would be for all peoples of all times and in fact I see the Kingdom as a small mustard seed that grows to be the biggest tree around as well as something that will leaven the whole lump of dough of the world and radically change it for the better and of the increase of his kingdom there is no end and . . . just a few scriptures about the victorious advance of God's kingdom on earth.

But to answer your question, no, they are not better or more deserving, maybe just more lucky than those who didn't hear at all.

Grey areas? Well yes, I'm working through my own beliefs about what one must know to be saved and am entertaining the ideas of how the Gospel might look had it been taken to India (some say by Jesus himself) and contextualized for that culture. I'm willing to venture the Gospel may be hardly recognizable in that culture to us in the West.

 

[Krsto]

Yes, and, I believe it's God's way of relating to temporal beings that there is no rest in the Lake of Fire, but that the torment is continual. Death, God's last enemy, is a spirit, just as hell is, and both will be tormented, just as The Bible says. Did you think it meant something else?

Well yes, death and hell (the grave) are cast into the Lake of Fire to be destoyed. Isn't that what fire is for? Remember the furnace analogy? Eternal fire, temporal consuming until all is consumed. Get the fire hot enough and it happens rather quickly.

 

[Arthur Brain]

The narrow path comment I think is best understood to relate to the Jews of his time. Few indeed found the Way. I don't see it as a general statement or maxim of how it would be for all peoples of all times and in fact I see the Kingdom as a small mustard seed that grows to be the biggest tree around as well as something that will leaven the whole lump of dough of the world and radically change it for the better and of the increase of his kingdom there is no end and . . . just a few scriptures about the victorious advance of God's kingdom on earth.

But to answer your question, no, they are not better or more deserving, maybe just more lucky than those who didn't hear at all.

Grey areas? Well yes, I'm working through my own beliefs about what one must know to be saved and am entertaining the ideas of how the Gospel might look had it been taken to India (some say by Jesus himself) and contextualized for that culture. I'm willing to venture the Gospel may be hardly recognizable in that culture to us in the West.

More "lucky"? I could quote you a verse that seem to do away with 'luck':

1 Corinthians 15:22-28 (Young's Literal Translation)

22for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,

23and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

24then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --

25for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --

26the last enemy is done away -- death;

27for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,

28and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.


How do you explain this?

 

[Aimiel]

Well yes, death and hell (the grave) are cast into the Lake of Fire to be destoyed. Isn't that what fire is for? Remember the furnace analogy? Eternal fire, temporal consuming until all is consumed. Get the fire hot enough and it happens rather quickly.

Were your theory correct, there would eventually come an end of a need for the fire, having 'consumed' everything which it was fed. Since The Word of God says that the smoke of their torment ascends for ever and ever, we know that it is not correct.

 

[Granite]

So, Aimiel, did every single soul in Sodom go to hell? What about infants and children, both born and unborn?

 

[Aimiel]

That was actually directed at Krsto. But regardless, without the creation of human life to begin with there could be no eternal torment for fallible creatures such as you and I.

The perfect beings (angels) who sinned were the ones whom hell was created for. They chose to sin, just like every human being does; but they did so, knowing God, Face-to-face. They were judged the moment they sinned. We have a chance at grace, never yet having seen His Face.

Under your theology God finds that acceptable and the *clever* ones like you manage to avoid such and advocate it for their *neighbours* who didn't find the same path.

I'm no more clever than anyone else, but God saw fit to give me repentance for my sins as well as to cleanse me of them with The Blood of Jesus. I don't advocate anything, I merely state facts, according to The Infallible Word of God.

 

[Arthur Brain]

The perfect beings (angels) who sinned were the ones whom hell was created for. They chose to sin, just like every human being does; but they did so, knowing God, Face-to-face. They were judged the moment they sinned. We have a chance at grace, never yet having seen His Face.I'm no more clever than anyone else, but God saw fit to give me repentance for my sins as well as to cleanse me of them with The Blood of Jesus. I don't advocate anything, I merely state facts, according to The Infallible Word of God.

No. You state opinion as fits the interpretation of your given doctrine. And why aren't you answering Granite's question? Too "loaded" for you again?

 

[Krsto]

More "lucky"? I could quote you a verse that seem to do away with 'luck':

1 Corinthians 15:22-28 (Young's Literal Translation)

22for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,

How do you explain this?

I'm not sure how much of that passage is relevant to the discussion but I think this one is.

Rom. 5 teaches us that what we all inherit from Adam is the penalty for sin which is death (the wages of sin is death) and also that all have sinned so all are dead. Notice however that in the next verse it is only those who are in Christ who are made alive so the "all" in the second half of 22 refers to all of them, not all men who ever lived after Christ. Whenever we see all we need to figure out all of what? Context will usually (but not always) clue us in on what the all refers to.

 

[freelight]

~*~*~

First one must educate themselves on the words that have been translated as the english word 'hell', and their actual meaning within a proper context -

Debunking superstitions about hell

Otherwise as previously noted, no one really knows what hell is like besides what descriptions exist or what can be 'imagined'. Since the universal law of karma exists for all conditional beings, 'hell' would be a condition of mind or state of consciousness that is self-inflicted, an experience of suffering, disease, torment, division, insanity, unreality. As long as the soul exists, and its psyche can be 'conditioned'....the potential of 'hell' ever abides as long as one sows the right seeds to reap such, maintaining that condition. (here and hereafter).

Research on the Afterlife



pj

 

[Aimiel]

The One Who REALLY knows what hell is like, having created it, described it as torment in flames from which there is no rest or escape; and also warned us about the eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire after hell is destroyed.