Cruciform
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Does it really? What do you actually know about its symbolism and purpose?
QUESTION: What object is located at the very top of the obelisk in St. Peter's Square, and why is it there?
Those Who Pervert God's Word With Religion
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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QUESTION: What object is located at the very top of the obelisk in St. Peter's Square, and why is it there?
Cruciform
New member
If your claim is true (it isn't), that must mean that Protestants want to keep Jesus OFF the cross, which indicates that Protestants deny the saving ATONEMENT of our Lord Jesus Christ. Isn't that right? :think:
Roman Catholicism Keeps Jesus on the cross. He is not on the cross nor is He in the grave. He is seated at the right hand of the Father.
Cruciform
New member
BY THE VERY SAME 'LOGIC': "Protestantism keeps Jesus OFF the cross, and so denies and rejects Christ's saving ATONEMENT !"
Is that correct, and if not, why not?
For the same reason I told you before. He is no longer in the grave. He is the living God seated at the Father's right hand. Why would you keep Him on the cross?
Cruciform
New member
You didn't answer my question. Try again. (Why would you keep him OFF the cross, and deny the Atonement?)
It is not a denial of the atonement to bring Him off of the cross. Keeping Him on the cross is a denial of the resurrection!
I know who Joseph married.
Cruciform
New member
Likewise, it is not a denial of the Resurrection to depict Jesus ON the cross. Keeping him OFF the cross is a denial of the Atonement! (See how that works?)
Keeping Him on the cross is an affirmation of His death without an affirmation of the resurrection.
My understanding is clear. Jesus is not on my cross because He is not there.
Cruciform
New member
So, since Jesus didn't go to the cross, you deny His saving Atonement, correct? (After all, this is the "logic" you're using against Catholics, is it not?)
See the source cited in Post #71 above.
The question is; Should He still be on the cross? The answer is NO, He is seated at the Father's right hand. Now the question is for you, Are you getting this?
Cruciform
New member
Catholics certainly don't in any way deny the Resurrection and Ascension of the Lord, nor does the symbolism of the crucifix---Christ's saving Atonement---in any way deny either of those truths. We publicly affirm both the Resurrection and the Ascension more than once at every Mass. So your suggestion that the crucifix somehow represents a denial of the Resurrection is just straightforwardly false.
We depict Jesus on the cross as a public witness of His saving Atonement that took place on the cross, and without which there would simply BE no Resurrection or Ascension. This is fully consistent with the kerygma of the apostles and early Christian Church---carefully reflect, for example, on the following biblical texts:
1 Corinthians 1:23-24; 2:2
Galatians 3:1, 13; 6:14
Philippians 3:18
Hebrews 12:2
1 Peter 2:24
Galatians 3:1, 13; 6:14
Philippians 3:18
Hebrews 12:2
1 Peter 2:24
The simple fact is that Jesus saved us on the cross. His Atonement took place on the cross. His redemptive act for all men was "finished" (John 19:30) on the the cross. This is what is symbolized by the crucifix, and to deny this profound symbolism is to deny the saving Atonement of Jesus Christ himself.
Again: Did you consider the source cited in Post #71 above?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Cruciform
New member
So, then, you have no idea whatsoever what the St. Peter's obelisk symbolizes or represents, and therefore really have no idea at all what you're talking about.
I answered your question. I know who Joseph married and I know the results of that marriage. One of the results is the Catholic teachings.
Cruciform
New member
Still Post #76.
He didn't call a priest in for last rights? :sigh: They've put their faith in a Babylonian religion with a little Christianity mixed in (Ga 5:9).
linger: That's a little rock they're standing on (Mt 7:24, 25). :idunno: See:
No Mediator
popsthebuilder
New member
There is no division of the two according to the Christ and scripture. There was I suppose, but no longer, as all are with sin.
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