Nanja
Well-known member
Not possible. For the tares are the seed of the devil, sons of the wicked one Mat. 13:38-39; 25:41!
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The "YOU MUST" Religions
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Not possible. For the tares are the seed of the devil, sons of the wicked one Mat. 13:38-39; 25:41!
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Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Many in the Catholic religionlinger: believe that they can pray their loved ones into salvation. They cannot.
Hi serpentdove,
Just a couple of clarifications based on what you have said, if I may.
Your above statement may or may not be true, I think, depending on what you mean by "Praying someone into salvation".
I think this statement may or may not be true also based on what you mean by it. But either way, I don't see how John 3:7 says "each must come to the Lord on his own."
Agreed. But I do not believe the Catholic Church teaches that they do. So....
Jesus saves (Isa 63:9; Eph 5:23). Jesus alone saves (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12).
Amen.
Peace.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Amen.
You have to add in the word "alone" to any bible verse that you want to claim this. Notice the word "alone" isn't found in either of the two verses that you cited.
But....depending on what you mean by "faith alone"...a Catholic could very well agree with you.
If you mean something like "believe that Jesus is God" or something....no, faith alone like that won't save you.
If you mean something like what Paul says in Galatians 5:6 : "...faith working through love." Then yes, a Catholic would agree that we are saved by "faith alone" in that sense.
Amen.
False.
Catholics do not deny anything that you have stated above....depending on what you mean by "faith alone".
The link you attached goes to a Calvary Chapel website with some apologetics resources. The information they have on Roman Catholicism is quite easily refuted because of the misrepresentations, misunderstandings, or misconceptions that are found throughout the material. What is being presented as Catholic teaching isn't even really Catholic teaching in much of what they state.
That is too bad. If people want to know about Catholicism they really shouldn't be learning about it from such an inaccurate source. They are just being misled.
Peace to you.
The tares are those that have rejected Christ and his Gospel. Satan cannot create tares. They become tares through unbelief.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Amen. Agreed.
He is addressing the greatest commandment of how to love God and love our neighbor.
I'm not sure how that relates to the post you were responding to, though. I mean, I can see how it relates to the "love" commandment part.
But the other parts??
Peace.
Nanja
Well-known member
They had no say in the matter, God created them that way Rom. 9:20, reprobates Prov. 16:4.
Mat. 13:38-39
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
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God does not create sinners. This is why you are lost, you don't have faith in God or his Son Jesus Christ.
People become sinners through unbelief, just like you. You are determined to believe that God is unjust.
"Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12.
Nanja
Well-known member
Yes He does!
Prov. 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
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If God created sinners and then sent them to hell he would be unjust.
You want to believe that he is unjust because you can't trust or believe in him.
That is part of your religion. Big problem with that. It is not possible to be saved without faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ.
You are in serious trouble.
6days
New member
Poor analogy but..... If you create a wool sweater for yourself, then burn it.....Are you unjust?
Robert.....I don't think you and me, created beings, are in a position to be judge over our Creator. Also, consider the possibility that you may not have perfect knowledge...as does He.
I have enough knowledge to know that God is not unjust. Everyone has a chance to hear and believe. If you reject what God has done for you in Jesus Christ, you deserve to go to hell.
fishrovmen
Active member
Do you consider rejecting and unbelief in Jesus as sin?
6days
New member
We all agree...God is totally JUST. But we don't all agree on what you think is just.
You don't know this? Jn 3:10
Related:
No Purgatory
Catholicism is a work-based religion (Jud 11 :burnlib
. See:
Works vs. Faith
Recommended reading
The Pursuit of God by A. W. Tozer
:yawn: Eph 4:14, Is 48:22[We are saved by grace alone (Eph 2:8-9), through faith alone (Eph 1:13; 2Ti 1:10), in Christ alone (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12).
:yawn: Jn 8:37
Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).
It is the unforgiveable sin.
A just person is one that does what is right.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Ummm...no. I don't know that Jesus words in John 3:7:
"Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’"
Really mean.....
"each must come to the Lord on his own." as you stated.
Instead of quoting John 3:10 (which is really quite irrelevant other than to apparently accuse me of not knowing something about the bible) how about you explain to me how Christ's words in John 3:7 really mean what you said they do?
Misrepresents and doesn't understand Catholic teaching so really nothing more than a misleading exercise in setting up and then knocking down a straw man. Not of value.
Catholicism is a work-based religion (Jud 11 :burnlib
Well, it might be a work-based religion but I don't know what you mean by that. So until you are willing to define what you mean...well, it might be work-based....or it might not be work-based.
Jude 11 certainly does not prove that Catholicism is a work-based religion.
Although, if you think it does....at least you have shown that you will acknowledge that the Catholic Church existed in the 1st century A.D. I mean, if Jude was referring to the Catholic Church...it must've been there for him to refer to. Some people don't believe the Catholic Church existed in the 1st century A.D. I'm glad you at least do.
Sorry. Not helpful. Misrepresents Catholic teaching and is therefore inaccurate and unhelpful.
[/QUOTE]
I'll probably pass.
So far every link you have included in your posts misrepresents Catholic teaching. Might be a good book, might not...but I'll pass. Your recommended readings have been too error-filled so far.
Peace.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
LOL!
So wait, First you present two verses that supposedly support the idea that we are saved by "faith alone",
Then, when it is brought to your attention that neither of those verses use the word "alone" (and by the way neither one uses the word "faith" either),...
...your response is to yawn and quote two more completely irrelevant verses?
In other words, you do not want to be bothered with the fact that the verses you brought up DO NOT teach that we are saved by "faith alone".....you are just gonna go with that idea anyway. And fiddlesticks upon the idea of actually defending your idea or maybe even (omigosh) sharing the Truth with someone who doesn't have it?
Not worth your time?
By the way...the two verses you quoted above...those were referring to you right? Or was it me? Or is it both of us?
Peace to you just the same.