The "YOU MUST" Religions

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Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Robert Pate said:
Hearing and believing the Gospel is a very natural thing. It appears that you want to make it a law or a commandment. Very typical of someone that is religious.
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Hearing and believing the Gospel is no more natural than hearing and rejecting the Gospel.

It is a choice that each person must make.

It appears that you want to ignore that your belief system obviously entails a "YOU MUST" condition.

Since Jesus was religious....I'm ok with being accused of being religious, too.

God Bless.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Bard_the_Bowman said:
Hearing and believing the Gospel is no more natural than hearing and rejecting the Gospel.

It is a choice that each person must make.

It appears that you want to ignore that your belief system obviously entails a "YOU MUST" condition.

Since Jesus was religious....I'm ok with being accused of being religious, too.

God Bless.
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What makes you think that Jesus was religious? He either broke or changed many of the laws of Moses.
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Robert Pate said:
What makes you think that Jesus was religious? He either broke or changed many of the laws of Moses.
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Well, here is one example that makes me think Jesus was religious:

John 3:5-7: "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’" (NKJV)

Notice Jesus has given us a "YOU MUST" condition.

So it seems that not all "YOU MUST" conditions are to be rejected.

I would agree with you that some "YOU MUST" conditions should be. But not all of them or we cannot obey Christ.

Peace.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Bard_the_Bowman said:
Well, here is one example that makes me think Jesus was religious:

John 3:5-7: "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’" (NKJV)

Notice Jesus has given us a "YOU MUST" condition.

So it seems that not all "YOU MUST" conditions are to be rejected.

I would agree with you that some "YOU MUST" conditions should be. But not all of them or we cannot obey Christ.

Peace.
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We are born again by hearing and believing the Gospel. Paul never said, "YOU MUST" hear and believe the Gospel.

What makes you think that you obey Christ?
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

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Robert Pate said:
We are born again by hearing and believing the Gospel.
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Really? Where is that stated in the Bible? The phrase "born again" is used rarely. When Jesus is teaching what it means to be "born again" in John 3:5 He says:

"Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

He doesn't say anything about "born again" meaning believing the Gospel.

Unless you can show me where He does (or somebody else does, I guess) I'm gonna go with what Jesus said. And that isn't "hearing and believing the Gospel".

Paul never said, "YOU MUST" hear and believe the Gospel.
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Paul also never said that we are "born again" by believing the Gospel.

But Jesus did say "YOU MUST" be born again.

Should we listen to Him or is that optional?

What makes you think that you obey Christ?
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If you re-read what I said, I never said that I obey Christ. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I certainly implied that we should obey Christ but I never said that I did. I try to. As I think all Christians should.

Here's one reason why:

Hebrews 5:9: "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,"(NKJV)

Peace.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Bard_the_Bowman said:
Really? Where is that stated in the Bible? The phrase "born again" is used rarely. When Jesus is teaching what it means to be "born again" in John 3:5 He says:

"Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

He doesn't say anything about "born again" meaning believing the Gospel.

Unless you can show me where He does (or somebody else does, I guess) I'm gonna go with what Jesus said. And that isn't "hearing and believing the Gospel".



Paul also never said that we are "born again" by believing the Gospel.

But Jesus did say "YOU MUST" be born again.

Should we listen to Him or is that optional?



If you re-read what I said, I never said that I obey Christ. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I certainly implied that we should obey Christ but I never said that I did. I try to. As I think all Christians should.

Here's one reason why:

Hebrews 5:9: "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,"(NKJV)

Peace.
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On the day of Pentecost 8,000 Jews heard Peter's Gospel and were born again, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17, Which is the Gospel.
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
jamie said:
It is late at night, sometimes English words can appear too similar, often wrongly as being the same.

And things that are the same are not different, but what a difference a day makes.
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Decisive, the word I used is the one I meant. To decide, may not be the best word to use in the English language; however, it conveys meaning 'what has been decided upon', as such, has become the standard practice.
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Robert Pate said:
On the day of Pentecost 8,000 Jews heard Peter's Gospel and were born again, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17, Which is the Gospel.
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Acts 2:41: " Then those who gladly[g] received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them."

That verse doesn't say anything about being "born again".

Acts 4:4: "However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand."

That verse doesn't say anything about being "born again" either.

Romans 10:17 doesn't say anything about being "born again" either.

Jesus taught what it means to be "born again" in John 3:3-5.

Why don't you start there? That's where the actual phrase "born again" is actually used, after all.

Peace.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Banned
glassjester said:
Now here's what the Church actually teaches...
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Many in the Catholic religion :eek:linger: believe that they can pray their loved ones into salvation. They cannot. Each must come to the Lord on his own (Jn 3:7).

Plans and programs do not save (Ga 1:6-8). Jesus saves (Isa 63:9; Eph 5:23). Jesus alone saves (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12). :poly:
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Bard_the_Bowman said:
You MUST Forgive others (as Jesus said in Matthew 6:14),
You MUST Love God and neighbor (as Jesus said in Luke 10:27-28)
You MUST Repent(as Jesus said in Matthew 4:17)
You MUST be born again (as Jesus said in John 3:5)
You MUST obey (as Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 1:8)

Are those NOT religious things?
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"He laid down His life for us. This expression is unique to John (John 10:11, 15, 17, 18; 13:37, 38; 15:13) and speaks of divesting oneself of something. Christian love is self-sacrificing and giving. Christ’s giving up his life for believers epitomized the true nature of Christian love (John 15:12, 13; Phil. 2:5–8; 1 Pet. 2:19–23). we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. God calls Christians to that same standard of love for one another as He had for us (see v. 16a)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1970). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
 
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Robert Pate

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Banned
serpentdove said:
"He laid down His life for us. This expression is unique to John (John 10:11, 15, 17, 18; 13:37, 38; 15:13) and speaks of divesting oneself of something. Christian love is self-sacrificing and giving. Christ’s giving up his life for believers epitomized the true nature of Christian love (John 15:12, 13; Phil. 2:5–8; 1 Pet. 2:19–23). we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. God calls Christians to that same standard of love for one another as He had for us (see v. 16a)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1970). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
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Are you aware that John MacArthur is a Calvinist?
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Robert Pate said:
[MacArthur, Calvinist] Maybe you should not quote him. Calvinist do not believe the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ.
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One doesn't go to heaven or hell based on his belief in Calvinism or Arminianism. One goes to heaven or hell based on a right relationship with Jesus Christ.
 
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Robert Pate

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serpentdove said:
One doesn't go to heaven or hell based on his belief in Calvinism or Arminianism. One goes to heaven or hell based on a right relationship with Jesus Christ.
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I agree. Calvinist do not have a right relationship with Jesus Christ because it is not based upon Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It is based upon predestination and John Calvin the heretic.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
I agree. Calvinist do not have a right relationship with Jesus Christ because it is not based upon Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It is based upon predestination and John Calvin the heretic.
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Salvation is based upon the Righteousness of Christ Jesus, Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 for all those Chosen in Him of the Father before the foundation Eph. 1:4, to have remission of sins Eph 1:7 according to the riches of His Grace Rom. 4:8.

~~~~~
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nanja said:
Salvation is based upon the Righteousness of Christ Jesus, Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 for all those Chosen in Him of the Father before the foundation Eph. 1:4, to have remission of sins Eph 1:7 according to the riches of His Grace Rom. 4:8.

~~~~~
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You continue to misinterpret Ephesians 1:4.

God is no respecter of persons, so the us is not individuals.

The "us" is all of humanity. God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ, and then he perfected it and took it to heaven. Our salvation is in a very secure place.

How else is a sinner going to be "Holy and without blame before him in love?"

The only one that has been predestinated is Jesus Christ, he was predestinated to be the savior of the world, 1 John 2:2.
 
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