The "YOU MUST" Religions

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
:yawn: Jn 8:37

I get it. Random scripture quoting. Ok, here's one that I find kindof fascinating:

James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Yeah, that's the only place I can find in the bible where the Holy Spirit inspired any author to use the terms "faith" and "alone" (or only) together. Kindof interesting.

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16).

Praise be to God and I know it!

Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9).

Thanks be to God..Amen!

Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30).

Errrrt!!!! Wait, what? Repent? I have to repent?

Um...ok...but that would mean I am doing something.

And that would mean that I am doing something besides believing.

But that would mean that I am doing something besides BELIEVING ALONE.

But that would mean that I am doing something besides having "faith alone."

But it does say that in Scripture as you have shown.....so....ok. :thumb:

Believe (Mk 9:23).

Amen. I do.

Thanks for pointing out that we must repent AND believe and not just believe.

That shows that there are at least TWO aspects to salvation.

That is a big help.

Peace to you.
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
...[H]ow about you explain to me how Christ's words in John 3:7 really mean...
No thanks (Mt 7:6). Happy to show the bottom of my shoe at the Great White Throne though (Mk 6:11). :idunno:

moonwalking-smiley-face.gif


[See: No Purgatory ] Misrepresents and doesn't understand Catholic teaching...
:yawn: ad hominem Eph 4:14

[Catholicism is a work-based religion (Jud 11 :burnlib:).] I don't know what you mean by that.
See:

Catholicism

Give your life to Jesus. :listen: It's almost midnight (Mt 25:6). :rapture:

[See: Works vs. Faith] Misrepresents Catholic teaching...

:yawn: ad hominem Eph 4:14


 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
No thanks (Mt 7:6). Happy to show the bottom of my shoe at the Great White Throne though (Mk 6:11). :idunno:

Hmmmm. So you make a claim about the meaning of a biblical text. And when asked to explain it you go right to the casting "pearls before swine" verse??

That is really lame and really arrogant, man. You must what, completely ignore 1 Peter 3:15?

moonwalking-smiley-face.gif


:yawn: ad hominem Eph 4:14

Um. No. I did not attack a person or his/her traits.

I simply pointed out that the content of the message is in error.

Learn what ad hominem means, dude.


Doesn't accurately depict Catholicism. Is simply a caricature of Catholicism and is filled with factual errors.

(That isn't ad hominem by the way).

Give your life to Jesus. :listen: It's almost midnight (Mt 25:6). :rapture:

[/QUOTE]
 

andyc

New member
Paul wrote, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

We have to be careful here, because Paul is talking about works of the flesh, and he did not refer to this as being religious.
People today use the term "being religious" to describe legalism. I don't mind this so much in it's proper context, but when it isn't in context you can find yourself disagreeing with scripture, or at the least, causing confusion.

What is a work of the law? A work of the law is any religious thing that one might do.

Nope, that is an incorrect statement.

James 1:26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless.

Here James uses the term "religious" to explain that a religious person is expected to control his tongue, or his religion is worthless. And so the opposite of that is, a person is religious, and their religion is worth something if they live holy.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

And so James explains that a religious person will do things. And so your statement describing a religious person is at best confused, because you need to be more accurate explaining what you mean,


The Pharisees came up with over 600 laws and rules for holy living called the Torah.

Salvation always has been and always will be by grace through faith. What we do or what we become does not save us. We are saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus, plus NOTHING.

Again this is confused. The faith part is very important. For example, there are places where someone will be faced with the fact that faith in Jesus may lead to them being tortured or killed. Or, faith may require a domestic sacrifice.

Here are some of the "YOU MUST" religions.

CALVINISM: YOU MUST be predestinated or you will not be saved.

But this is different from the legalistic point raised above.

CATHOLICISM: YOU MUST be baptized into the Catholic church or you will not be saved.

CHURCH OF CHRIST: YOU MUST be baptized in water or you will not be saved.

This is very true.


PENTECOSTALISM: YOU MUST speak in tongues.

Very few pentecostals believe this. Only extreme groups.


SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST: You MUST be baptized in water.

SDAism is a cult.

BAPTIST: YOU MUST be baptized in water.

Water baptism is not a requirement for salvation, but it is something that Jesus wanted every believer to do. If people decided not to be baptized, it wouldnt say much about their salvation, would it?

Peter said, "can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized?" Interesting question. Their are movements today like hyperdispensationilsts who are forbidding water.


All religions teach that YOU MUST do something to become a member of their church. YOU MUST obey and follow the rules and the laws of their church whatever they might be.

Not to be saved.

This is the exact thing that Paul taught against.

Laws, rules and conditions for membership into a church is a work of the law. The only condition for membership into any church should be, "Do you have faith in Christ?" On that and on that alone, should be the only condition for membership into any church.

We have to be careful with people who claim to be Christian, but deny the faith with their lifestyle, as this can be a poor witness for the church.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
All of them were baptized.

Baptism is nothing more than a public profession of faith in Christ. It does not save.

There is nothing that we can do to merit favor with God because we are sinners.

This is why Paul said, "The Just Shall Live by Faith" Romans 1:16.
 

andyc

New member
Baptism is nothing more than a public profession of faith in Christ. It does not save.

There is nothing that we can do to merit favor with God because we are sinners.

This is why Paul said, "The Just Shall Live by Faith" Romans 1:16.

I agree, but the public profession could have had drastic consequences on families in those days, and could have been a factor on someone choosing whether or not to accept Christ. Accepting Christ as savior can have huge consequences for people in certain cultures.
It's very easy to say that all you have to do is believe, and then everything is easy.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
I agree, but the public profession could have had drastic consequences on families in those days, and could have been a factor on someone choosing whether or not to accept Christ. Accepting Christ as savior can have huge consequences for people in certain cultures.
It's very easy to say that all you have to do is believe, and then everything is easy.

All who come to Christ to be saved by him receive the Holy Spirit and are born again.

Once this happens you become a child of God and an enemy of Satan. Nothing is easy for a Christian in this life. "All that live Godly in Jesus Christ will suffer persecution". The question is will you be able to persevere?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
All who come to Christ to be saved by him receive the Holy Spirit and are born again.

Once this happens you become a child of God and an enemy of Satan. Nothing is easy for a Christian in this life. "All that live Godly in Jesus Christ will suffer persecution". The question is will you be able to persevere?
False statements not found in scripture! Promoting salvation by works, by what a person does.
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
:yawn: I answer to God not you (Eph 4:14). :juggle:

I never asked you to answer to me. Just trying to have a conversation, man.

I will say this. When you make claims...but then refuse to explain or defend them, well, a lot of people will conclude that you will not defend them because you cannot defend them.

I will say this to you as well...just as you revealed your misunderstanding of what an ad hominem argument actually is, so too is your misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church actually is and teaches.

In other words, you do not really know some of the things you claim to know.

Peace.
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Hey andyc,

You responded to Robert's comment: "CATHOLICISM: YOU MUST be baptized into the Catholic church or you will not be saved." by saying that that is very true.

It actually isn't.

The Catholic Church has a more nuanced understanding of the necessity of Baptism than that.

Peace.
 

God's Truth

New member
Paul wrote, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

What is a work of the law? A work of the law is any religious thing that one might do. The Pharisees came up with over 600 laws and rules for holy living called the Torah.

Salvation always has been and always will be by grace through faith. What we do or what we become does not save us. We are saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus, plus NOTHING.

Here are some of the "YOU MUST" religions.

CALVINISM: YOU MUST be predestinated or you will not be saved.

CATHOLICISM: YOU MUST be baptized into the Catholic church or you will not be saved.

CHURCH OF CHRIST: YOU MUST be baptized in water or you will not be saved.

PENTECOSTALISM: YOU MUST speak in tongues.

SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST: You MUST be baptized in water.

BAPTIST: YOU MUST be baptized in water.

All religions teach that YOU MUST do something to become a member of their church. YOU MUST obey and follow the rules and the laws of their church whatever they might be.

This is the exact thing that Paul taught against.

Laws, rules and conditions for membership into a church is a work of the law. The only condition for membership into any church should be, "Do you have faith in Christ?" On that and on that alone, should be the only condition for membership into any church.

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.


Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.


Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.


Works and obedience is not the conditions for salvation. If that were true no one would be saved, simply because..."There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. You may think that you are righteous, but God's word says that you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.
 

God's Truth

New member
Works and obedience is not the conditions for salvation. If that were true no one would be saved, simply because..."There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. You may think that you are righteous, but God's word says that you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.

Paul is quoting the Old Testament and is explaining that there is no one who is so righteous that they have never ever sinned. The Bible tells us plainly that there are righteous people before Jesus came to earth. You should study the Bible more and not what false teachers say.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Works and obedience is not the conditions for salvation. If that were true no one would be saved, simply because..."There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. You may think that you are righteous, but God's word says that you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.

Thats what you teach ! You teach man must do something to get saved !
 
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