The verses dispys misinterpret--

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heir

TOL Subscriber
I was in a Plymouth Brethren church for the first 7 years of my Christian life, and studied from the Scofield bible, notes and all. PB's are the denomination of Darby and they are hyper-dispensationalists, so I know all about the movement and its various versions of delusion.

It is sad the way you ridicule others and show no interest in actual discussion of the things of God. Quite telling, IMO. :nono:
You had a KJB in your hands. Did you ever study IT with the attitude of believing every word? How did you come away studying it and not see different people, commands, requirements, gospels, doctrine and inheritances? Who influenced you to gloss over all of the differences and conclude it's all the same?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
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You had a KJB in your hands. Did you ever study IT with the attitude of believing every word? How did you come away studying it and not see different people, commands, requirements, gospels, doctrine and inheritances? Who influenced you to gloss over all of the differences and conclude it's all the same?

She must have used earplugs.
 

northwye

New member
Nang, I didn't know you were in a Darby type church. Some of the people I know or have read or heard on the Internet who have become interested in the remnant came out of dispensationalist churches. One man who was the moderator of a Christian Yahoo Group I was on came out of the Southern California home of Calvary Chapel under Chuck Smith, a dispensationalist. There is an interesting connection between Chuck Smith and the Jesus Freak movement. Yet this guy came out of dispensationalism and became a leader of some of those interested in the remnant. A woman who was in that group later became a moderator of a later Christian Yahoo group, and she did a study on the 144,000 and the remnant and multitude, which became a foundation for the remnant people who were in those Yahoo Groups and some others. She came out of a Pentecostal- dispensationalist church in California to become another leader of the remnant. Like the earlier man who was in Chuck Smith's church in California, she left California for Idaho. He moved to southwest Oregon several years ago.

There is another man who has had an influence on the remnant people I know about and I will mention his name because he is better known.

One of the reasons Dean Gotcher is not liked in the churches is because what he is talking about is a paradigm shift, and in talking about that he is over the heads of almost all church members. And they do not like that. Gotcher is a preacher and a scholar, and they don't like that either. Because as a preacher he is a remnant leader and as a scholar he says things they do not understand but have some vague impression that he is being critical of the churches.

Gotcher does not,like the other two I just mentioned, focus on a criticism of dispensationalism. But what Gotcher says certainly does not agree with dispensationalism. In fact much of what Gotcher says is about false doctrines and the way false doctrines are promoted and defended.

I don't know what Christian denomination Gotcher came out of. But for a while he was following the life of a conventional church Christian. He got a degree from some Bible college in Christian education and was in a Christian seminary for a while, until one day he got up in class and asked why they were studying some theologian rather than scripture. He got nothing but silence, and he walked out never to return to a seminary.

Karl Marx comes along and begins to make use of the Hegelian dialectic as a way of changing the society through changing its paradigm, in order to set up a totalitarian government and society.

This is where Dean Gotcher loses most of his audience. They do not understand how the Hegelian dialectic can be used to change paradigms, even if they have some idea of what a paradigm is.

In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)

Benjamin Bloom, who wrote the two volume book on the Taxonomy
of Educational Goal Objectives, by which all teachers must be
certified, said "We recognize the point of view that
truth and knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and
fast truths which exist for all time and places.” (Benjamin Bloom, et
al., Taxonomy of Educational Objectives, Book 1, Cognitive Domain)

With the Hegelian dialectic, there are two opposing positions, or attitudes, or beliefs, and these two clashing positions are to be resolved in a compromise. The thesis and the anti-thesis conflict and the result is the synthesis, which is brought about to change paradigms.

The word of God is absolute truth. But absolute truth cannot be tolerated by Marxists. The good Marxist tries to make every statement about facts or scripture into opinion. Opinions can be argued about all over the place and for a long period of time such arguments can go on. But facts that can be verified or scripture, if you believe scripture, must not be treated as opinion like a good Marxist would do.

Someone who has faith, and believes scripture must not compromise that absolute truth by running it though the Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic, so that an argument in opposition to an absolute truth from Scripture results in a compromise which moves the position a little away from absolute truth, that is, it compromises it. Then, the same process is carried out again and the absolute truth is compromised a little more, and on and on. Finally, you have changed the paradigm, so in the minds of those who have been led into the dialectic mind set, there is no longer an absolute truth any more in scripture, but everything is relative and subject to change. Gotcher talks about relationships of affection being effective in bringing change to the positions people take, or to their truth.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Nang, I didn't know you were in a Darby type church. Some of the people I know or have read or heard on the Internet who have become interested in the remnant came out of dispensationalist churches. One man who was the moderator of a Christian Yahoo Group I was on came out of the Southern California home of Calvary Chapel under Chuck Smith, a dispensationalist. There is an interesting connection between Chuck Smith and the Jesus Freak movement. Yet this guy came out of dispensationalism and became a leader of some of those interested in the remnant. A woman who was in that group later became a moderator of a later Christian Yahoo group, and she did a study on the 144,000 and the remnant and multitude, which became a foundation for the remnant people who were in those Yahoo Groups and some others. She came out of a Pentecostal- dispensationalist church in California to become another leader of the remnant. Like the earlier man who was in Chuck Smith's church in California, she left California for Idaho. He moved to to southwest Oregon several years ago.

There is another man who has had an influence on the remnant people I know about and I will mention his name because he is better known.

What ultimate point are you trying to make? Do you even know?
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Interesting background info, nang.

Just goes to show one does not always know what another might actually be basing their assertions on, of the two or three basic frames of reference each person will tend to base most of their key assertions on.

I'm curious, nang; what do YOU mean by "they are hyper-dispensationalists..."

They were exclusive, cultish, legalistic, theologically narrow, and censorious of what their members were allowed to read and watch.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Nang, I didn't know you were in a Darby type church. Some of the people I know or have read or heard on the Internet who have become interested in the remnant came out of dispensationalist churches. One man who was the moderator of a Christian Yahoo Group I was on came out of the Southern California home of Calvary Chapel under Chuck Smith, a dispensationalist. There is an interesting connection between Chuck Smith and the Jesus Freak movement. Yet this guy came out of dispensationalism and became a leader of some of those interested in the remnant. A woman who was in that group later became a moderator of a later Christian Yahoo group, and she did a study on the 144,000 and the remnant and multitude, which became a foundation for the remnant people who were in those Yahoo Groups and some others. She came out of a Pentecostal- dispensationalist church in California to become another leader of the remnant. Like the earlier man who was in Chuck Smith's church in California, she left California for Idaho. He moved to southwest Oregon several years ago.

There is another man who has had an influence on the remnant people I know about and I will mention his name because he is better known.

One of the reasons Dean Gotcher is not liked in the churches is because what he is talking about is a paradigm shift, and in talking about that he is over the heads of almost all church members. And they do not like that. Gotcher is a preacher and a scholar, and they don't like that either. Because as a preacher he is a remnant leader and as a scholar he says things they do not understand but have some vague impression that he is being critical of the churches.

Gotcher does not,like the other two I just mentioned, focus on a criticism of dispensationalism. But what Gotcher says certainly does not agree with dispensationalism. In fact much of what Gotcher says is about false doctrines and the way false doctrines are promoted and defended.

I don't know what Christian denomination Gotcher came out of. But for a while he was following the life of a conventional church Christian. He got a degree from some Bible college in Christian education and was in a Christian seminary for a while, until one day he got up in class and asked why they were studying some theologian rather than scripture. He got nothing but silence, and he walked out never to return to a seminary.

Karl Marx comes along and begins to make use of the Hegelian dialectic as a way of changing the society through changing its paradigm, in order to set up a totalitarian government and society.

This is where Dean Gotcher loses most of his audience. They do not understand how the Hegelian dialectic can be used to change paradigms, even if they have some idea of what a paradigm is.

In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)

Benjamin Bloom, who wrote the two volume book on the Taxonomy
of Educational Goal Objectives, by which all teachers must be
certified, said "We recognize the point of view that
truth and knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and
fast truths which exist for all time and places.” (Benjamin Bloom, et
al., Taxonomy of Educational Objectives, Book 1, Cognitive Domain)

With the Hegelian dialectic, there are two opposing positions, or attitudes, or beliefs, and these two clashing positions are to be resolved in a compromise. The thesis and the anti-thesis conflict and the result is the synthesis, which is brought about to change paradigms.

The word of God is absolute truth. But absolute truth cannot be tolerated by Marxists. The good Marxist tries to make every statement about facts or scripture into opinion. Opinions can be argued about all over the place and for a long period of time such arguments can go on. But facts that can be verified or scripture, if you believe scripture, must not be treated as opinion like a good Marxist would do.

Someone who has faith, and believes scripture must not compromise that absolute truth by running it though the Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic, so that an argument in opposition to an absolute truth from Scripture results in a compromise which moves the position a little away from absolute truth, that is, it compromises it. Then, the same process is carried out again and the absolute truth is compromised a little more, and on and on. Finally, you have changed the paradigm, so in the minds of those who have been led into the dialectic mind set, there is no longer an absolute truth any more in scripture, but everything is relative and subject to change. Gotcher talks about relationships of affection being effective in bringing change to the positions people take, or to their truth.

God is Sovereign and calls His elect out of any and all circumstances. Despite ignorantly joining a Dispie church when first saved, through my husband's and my private bible studies, the Holy Spirit led us out of error and into absolute Truth.

We object to the attitude of the "Outside the Camp" who say that any and all souls presently caught up in wrong teaching, cannot be genuine Christians. How can any of us determine who are the sons of God, and who is not. None of us have the right to so judge.

God saved our souls at home apart from any human witness by reading Scriptures, and God led us out of error by our study of the Scriptures in our own privacy.

It is the power of His Word to save . . . so all of us who are abiding in the love and grace of God should stop personal attacks and start praying that the Lord will lead many into serious study of His Word.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
God is Sovereign and calls His elect out of any and all circumstances. Despite ignorantly joining a Dispie church when first saved, through my husband's and my private bible studies, the Holy Spirit led us out of error and into absolute Truth.
First saved by what means? IOW, what is the gospel of your salvation? The Holy Ghost would not have led you away from the faith, that would have been a seducing spirit (1 Timothy 4:1 KJV). The Holy Ghost teaches comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:13 KJV) and would have approved of 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. After all of these years, you can neither define it or tell someone how to do it.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
It is the power of His Word to save . . . so all of us who are abiding in the love and grace of God should stop personal attacks and start praying that the Lord will lead many into serious study of His Word.
I pray you get saved and start 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!
 

Danoh

New member
Nang, I didn't know you were in a Darby type church. Some of the people I know or have read or heard on the Internet who have become interested in the remnant came out of dispensationalist churches. One man who was the moderator of a Christian Yahoo Group I was on came out of the Southern California home of Calvary Chapel under Chuck Smith, a dispensationalist. There is an interesting connection between Chuck Smith and the Jesus Freak movement. Yet this guy came out of dispensationalism and became a leader of some of those interested in the remnant. A woman who was in that group later became a moderator of a later Christian Yahoo group, and she did a study on the 144,000 and the remnant and multitude, which became a foundation for the remnant people who were in those Yahoo Groups and some others. She came out of a Pentecostal- dispensationalist church in California to become another leader of the remnant. Like the earlier man who was in Chuck Smith's church in California, she left California for Idaho. He moved to southwest Oregon several years ago.

There is another man who has had an influence on the remnant people I know about and I will mention his name because he is better known.

One of the reasons Dean Gotcher is not liked in the churches is because what he is talking about is a paradigm shift, and in talking about that he is over the heads of almost all church members. And they do not like that. Gotcher is a preacher and a scholar, and they don't like that either. Because as a preacher he is a remnant leader and as a scholar he says things they do not understand but have some vague impression that he is being critical of the churches.

Gotcher does not,like the other two I just mentioned, focus on a criticism of dispensationalism. But what Gotcher says certainly does not agree with dispensationalism. In fact much of what Gotcher says is about false doctrines and the way false doctrines are promoted and defended.

I don't know what Christian denomination Gotcher came out of. But for a while he was following the life of a conventional church Christian. He got a degree from some Bible college in Christian education and was in a Christian seminary for a while, until one day he got up in class and asked why they were studying some theologian rather than scripture. He got nothing but silence, and he walked out never to return to a seminary.

Karl Marx comes along and begins to make use of the Hegelian dialectic as a way of changing the society through changing its paradigm, in order to set up a totalitarian government and society.

This is where Dean Gotcher loses most of his audience. They do not understand how the Hegelian dialectic can be used to change paradigms, even if they have some idea of what a paradigm is.

In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)

Benjamin Bloom, who wrote the two volume book on the Taxonomy
of Educational Goal Objectives, by which all teachers must be
certified, said "We recognize the point of view that
truth and knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and
fast truths which exist for all time and places.” (Benjamin Bloom, et
al., Taxonomy of Educational Objectives, Book 1, Cognitive Domain)

With the Hegelian dialectic, there are two opposing positions, or attitudes, or beliefs, and these two clashing positions are to be resolved in a compromise. The thesis and the anti-thesis conflict and the result is the synthesis, which is brought about to change paradigms.

The word of God is absolute truth. But absolute truth cannot be tolerated by Marxists. The good Marxist tries to make every statement about facts or scripture into opinion. Opinions can be argued about all over the place and for a long period of time such arguments can go on. But facts that can be verified or scripture, if you believe scripture, must not be treated as opinion like a good Marxist would do.

Someone who has faith, and believes scripture must not compromise that absolute truth by running it though the Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic, so that an argument in opposition to an absolute truth from Scripture results in a compromise which moves the position a little away from absolute truth, that is, it compromises it. Then, the same process is carried out again and the absolute truth is compromised a little more, and on and on. Finally, you have changed the paradigm, so in the minds of those who have been led into the dialectic mind set, there is no longer an absolute truth any more in scripture, but everything is relative and subject to change. Gotcher talks about relationships of affection being effective in bringing change to the positions people take, or to their truth.

I'll bet you found yourself rather impressed with all your above books based parroting, just as you were typing it.

In short, traditions of men, books based parrot...

1 Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Two thousand years later, and your kind are still going strong in your unwise comparing of yourselves among yourselves...
 

Danoh

New member
They were exclusive, cultish, legalistic, theologically narrow, and censorious of what their members were allowed to read and watch.

Any former Dispy would know that is not a definition of Hyper-dispensationalism.

Rather, as even most outside of Dispensationalism would know - that was a definition of legalism.

And legalism is its' own ism within many isms within Christianity.

It is not an automatic within any group.

Rather, within certain individuals within all groups.

All you have proved is that you may have been part of a group at one time, who's individuals themselves were rather legalistic and incorrectly concluded from that experience, that that is Dispensationalism.

If so, you obviously were, and are not, qualified to speak on, and or, against Dispensationalism.

All groups have their fair share of legalists.

You know this is true even in Scripture.

Thanks for reply, but you have taken one thing for another.

That is about as fair a manner as I can point the above out you.

That there are Dispys who are very legalistic is true. As within all other groups within Christianity.

To conclude the system itself is legalistic does not speak well of your ability to properly discern one thing, from another.
 
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Nang

TOL Subscriber
First saved by what means? IOW, what is the gospel of your salvation? The Holy Ghost would not have led you away from the faith, that would have been a seducing spirit (1 Timothy 4:1 KJV). The Holy Ghost teaches comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:13 KJV) and would have approved of 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. After all of these years, you can neither define it or tell someone how to do it.

For some reason, the Lord has never called me to memorize, trust, and chant any isolated verses, superstitially expecting to thus be saved. (Sarcasm, of course, in answer to a dumb question and dumber accusation.)
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Any former Dispy would know that is not a definition of Hyper-dispensationalism.

Rather, as even most outside of Dispensationalism would know - that was a definition of legalism.

And legalism is its' own ism within many isms within Christianity.

It is not an automatic within any group.

Rather, within certain individuals within all groups.

All you have proved is that you may have been part of a group at one time, who's individuals themselves were rather legalistic and incorrectly concluded from that experience, that that is Dispensationalism.

If so, you obviously were, and are not, qualified to speak on, and or, against Dispensationalism.

All groups have their fair share of legalists.

You know this is true even in Scripture.

Thanks for reply, but you have taken one thing for another.

That is about as fair a manner as I can point the above out you.

That are Dispys who are very legalistic is true. As within all other groups within Christianity.

To conclude the system itself is legalistic does not speak well of your ability to discern one thing from another.

You skipped the part where I described them as cultic . .

How do you defend Dispies and MADists from that reality?
 

Danoh

New member
You skipped the part where I described them as cultic . .

How do you defend Dispies and MADists from that reality?

It is obvious there is no reasoning with you.

You simply do not know how to tell one thing from another.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
It is obvious there is no reasoning with you.

You simply do not know how to tell one thing from another.

Oh, not so . . .

I can easily discern the difference between a Dispie and a Covenantalist. It is like the difference between night and day. :chuckle:
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
For some reason, the Lord has never called me to memorize, trust, and chant any isolated verses, superstitially expecting to thus be saved. (Sarcasm, of course, in answer to a dumb question and dumber accusation.)
More avoidance, of course, as you have no biblical answers, only the rantings showing you spoiled through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
 
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