The Gospel that was given to the Apostle Paul by the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ. The Grace Gospel.
The verses dispys misinterpret--
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The Gospel that was given to the Apostle Paul by the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ. The Grace Gospel.
You reject the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. How can you and I communicate effectively on that basis?
Ben Masada
New member
Paul never met Jesus because Jesus had already died when Paul started preaching his own gospel. Paul's gospel, I mean. To ascend implies resurrection and resurrection implies a return from the grave. That would contradict the gospel of Jesus himself which was the Tanach. Read here: II Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc.
Ben Masada
New member
There would be no effective communication between us because the spirit of controversy would be lacking. The aim of every discussion is to learn for the sake of knowledge and, there is no learning in the chit-chattering of common beliefs. The bottom line is that if both of us believed the same thing, there would be nothing to discuss about.
So, am I to assume you're mainly looking to involve yourself with some good old fashion "Verbal Fisticuffs?"
Basically, I respect the Jewish people and try to distance myself from any form of confrontation. It's my personal choice. So, you'll have to seek out another poster to confront, Ben.
I've yet to see anybody show proof of how Dispensationalists misinterpret Scripture? Come on guys, Ain't you got nothin?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Darby had to rewrite the bible to make his dispensationalism fit his claims . . who can put all that into posts or attempt to prove the entire bible?
Genuine comprehension of God's Word takes faith, not proof.
Besides, it would be too lengthy an argument, and you and Musty would just report the effort.
Calvinists change the character and intent of the God of the Bible to fit their "belief system." They also misinterpret/misrepresent Scripture in order to correlate with their false doctrine/false gospel. (small g)
I NEVER heard of Darby before coming to TOL. He seems to have gained the ire of the reformed folks.
Ben Masada
New member
Not really! The main purpose of my Christian discussions is to stand for the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism against the attacks of Replacement Theology. If Jesus had
been a Christian and not a Jew, I would have no business sticking around this forum.
Well, then, you're just here to argue.
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise." Galatians 3: 16-18
I have never seen a dispnsationalist-Christian Zionist say what this text means to him or her. Its a text that is ignored and side stepped.
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 26-29
What does this text mean to dispensationalist-Christian Zionists?
17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise." Galatians 3: 16-18
I have never seen a dispnsationalist-Christian Zionist say what this text means to him or her. Its a text that is ignored and side stepped.
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 26-29
What does this text mean to dispensationalist-Christian Zionists?
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/dialectic-didactic-gotcher.htm
"That unchanging truth is intolerable to the continually changing
dialectic mind. Therefore, the patriarchal Jesus Christ must be
annihilated. His call for obedience to eternal laws clash with the
world's laws of "human" nature." Dean Gotcher
"Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel,
but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit,
that they may add sin to sin:" Isaiah 3: 30:1
"The only problem to their outcome was to be found with the
patriarchal remnant....." Dean Gotcher
But Christian Zionism does not believe there is a remnant in what is called the church age. ""From the time of Christ’s rejection by Israel until the time when God deals specifically with Israel again in the seventieth week it is not possible to refer to a remnant of the nation Israel." Things to Come: A Study in Biblical Eschatology, 1965, by J. Dwight Pentecost
You will find remnant in Revelation 12: 17 in the 1526 Tyndale New Testament, in the 1599 Geneva Bible and in the 1611 King James Version. Remnant is not in the NIV. It says the dragon went off to make war with the "rest" of her seed. No remnant in the NIV.
The New King James says "...he went to make war with the "rest" of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." No remnant in the New King James Version.
And there is no remnant of the church in the Bible. God in Revelation 18: 4 calls those who are his out of Babylon where Revelation 18: 23 says the light of a candle shines no more, and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride are heard no more at all..
Revelation 12: 15-17 on the Serpent-Dragon making war on the remnant while the Serpent-Dragon is sending a flood out of his mouth is a prophecy about a largely spiritual conflict going on between the forces of the Enemy, the False Prophets, and the remnant of Israel. But Christian Zionists say there is no remnant in the church age.
"That unchanging truth is intolerable to the continually changing
dialectic mind. Therefore, the patriarchal Jesus Christ must be
annihilated. His call for obedience to eternal laws clash with the
world's laws of "human" nature." Dean Gotcher
"Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel,
but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit,
that they may add sin to sin:" Isaiah 3: 30:1
"The only problem to their outcome was to be found with the
patriarchal remnant....." Dean Gotcher
But Christian Zionism does not believe there is a remnant in what is called the church age. ""From the time of Christ’s rejection by Israel until the time when God deals specifically with Israel again in the seventieth week it is not possible to refer to a remnant of the nation Israel." Things to Come: A Study in Biblical Eschatology, 1965, by J. Dwight Pentecost
You will find remnant in Revelation 12: 17 in the 1526 Tyndale New Testament, in the 1599 Geneva Bible and in the 1611 King James Version. Remnant is not in the NIV. It says the dragon went off to make war with the "rest" of her seed. No remnant in the NIV.
The New King James says "...he went to make war with the "rest" of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." No remnant in the New King James Version.
And there is no remnant of the church in the Bible. God in Revelation 18: 4 calls those who are his out of Babylon where Revelation 18: 23 says the light of a candle shines no more, and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride are heard no more at all..
Revelation 12: 15-17 on the Serpent-Dragon making war on the remnant while the Serpent-Dragon is sending a flood out of his mouth is a prophecy about a largely spiritual conflict going on between the forces of the Enemy, the False Prophets, and the remnant of Israel. But Christian Zionists say there is no remnant in the church age.
Hey, North, do you actually believe posters will take the time to read your lengthy Encyclopedia type postings?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
lifeisgood
New member
Who is this Darby guy? Never heard of him until I came to TOL.
Me either. Calvinists really don't like the guy at all.
Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has
"...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93
(October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447
Scripture is too subtle for the guy who is in the spiritual condition of
the natural man who does not discern the things of the Spirit in I
Corinthians 2: 14.. So dispensationalism or Christian Zionism changed the
interpretation of the Bible to supposedly make it consistent with a
theology honoring the chosen people by their physical bloodline.
That which is physical is easier for the carnal mind to grasp.
Briefly, here are the founders of dispensationalism-Christian Zionism:
To counteract the Protestant teaching that the Pope was the anti-Christ, Francisco Ribera,1537-1591, a Jesuit, wrote in 1585 a commentary on the Book of Revelation - Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij.
Ribera said that the anti-Christ would be one man, would rule for three and a half literal years, would deny Christ,persecute the saints, rebuild the temple in Jerusalem, conquer the world and kill the Two Witnesses of God. In 1585 the Catholic Church was into amillennialism which does not emphasize futurist prophecy fulfillment. But the Jesuit Ribera was teaching futurism.
Later, a Jesuit, Manuel or Emmanuel de Lacunza, 1731-1801, wrote The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty. Lacunza, like Ribera, goes beyond the amillenial theology of the Catholic Church. He said that the Church would be raptured before Jesus returned to Earth.
Lacunza said that the appearance of the ant-Christ and the two witnesses are still in the future, just before the coming of Christ. For Lacunza the prophecies concerning the antichrist will be fulfilled just prior to the coming of Christ. He said the tribulation during which the church will be persecuted by the antichrist will last 1260 literal days.
Edward Irving, 1792-1834, became interested in Lacunza's ideas and translated his book into English. Irving was interested in the teachings of Lacanza before John Darby began to take up these ideas.
John N. Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren, admitted that he had been influenced by the writings of the Jesuit De Lacunza.
Then an American, Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, 1843-1921, spread what came to be called dispensationalism in the English speaking world, especially through his book, the Scofield Reference Bible in 1909.
Lewis S. Chafer, 1871-1952, another American, made the teachings of Ribera, Lacunza, Irving, Darby,and Scofield into a more systematic theology. Chafer also founded Dallas Theological Seminary.
So, it was John Darby and C. I. Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer who "changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God." What they did was change the interpretation of the Bible. Their interpretation of the Bible emphasized Jewish supremacy, and the continuation of the Old Covenant in some way. They postulated that God now has two peoples, Old Covenant Israel - which Chafer calls earthly Israel - and the Church.
"...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93
(October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447
Scripture is too subtle for the guy who is in the spiritual condition of
the natural man who does not discern the things of the Spirit in I
Corinthians 2: 14.. So dispensationalism or Christian Zionism changed the
interpretation of the Bible to supposedly make it consistent with a
theology honoring the chosen people by their physical bloodline.
That which is physical is easier for the carnal mind to grasp.
Briefly, here are the founders of dispensationalism-Christian Zionism:
To counteract the Protestant teaching that the Pope was the anti-Christ, Francisco Ribera,1537-1591, a Jesuit, wrote in 1585 a commentary on the Book of Revelation - Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij.
Ribera said that the anti-Christ would be one man, would rule for three and a half literal years, would deny Christ,persecute the saints, rebuild the temple in Jerusalem, conquer the world and kill the Two Witnesses of God. In 1585 the Catholic Church was into amillennialism which does not emphasize futurist prophecy fulfillment. But the Jesuit Ribera was teaching futurism.
Later, a Jesuit, Manuel or Emmanuel de Lacunza, 1731-1801, wrote The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty. Lacunza, like Ribera, goes beyond the amillenial theology of the Catholic Church. He said that the Church would be raptured before Jesus returned to Earth.
Lacunza said that the appearance of the ant-Christ and the two witnesses are still in the future, just before the coming of Christ. For Lacunza the prophecies concerning the antichrist will be fulfilled just prior to the coming of Christ. He said the tribulation during which the church will be persecuted by the antichrist will last 1260 literal days.
Edward Irving, 1792-1834, became interested in Lacunza's ideas and translated his book into English. Irving was interested in the teachings of Lacanza before John Darby began to take up these ideas.
John N. Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren, admitted that he had been influenced by the writings of the Jesuit De Lacunza.
Then an American, Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, 1843-1921, spread what came to be called dispensationalism in the English speaking world, especially through his book, the Scofield Reference Bible in 1909.
Lewis S. Chafer, 1871-1952, another American, made the teachings of Ribera, Lacunza, Irving, Darby,and Scofield into a more systematic theology. Chafer also founded Dallas Theological Seminary.
So, it was John Darby and C. I. Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer who "changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God." What they did was change the interpretation of the Bible. Their interpretation of the Bible emphasized Jewish supremacy, and the continuation of the Old Covenant in some way. They postulated that God now has two peoples, Old Covenant Israel - which Chafer calls earthly Israel - and the Church.
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Zeke
Well-known member
Yet Paul also mentioned 2Cor 3:6 along with Galatians 1:12, Luke 17:20-21 Galatians 3:8 is interesting as is Acts 26:22, Acts 28:20-23, And you could also be at odds with them as well seeing the false observable historic influence of the letter is still guiding you're doctrinal foundation instead of Galatians 4:24, Luke 15:45, Gen 32:30.
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