The verses dispys misinterpret--

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Grosnick Marowbe

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When the Apostles walked the earth, they preached the "Kingdom Gospel" to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Both Christ and His Apostles/Disciples preached this Gospel only to the lost sheep. When Paul came into the picture, he became the Apostle to the Gentiles and preached the "Grace Gospel" to them. The difference between the two Gospels was, the Kingdom Gospel required faith in Christ and works. Whereas, the Grace Gospel preached to the Gentiles required faith alone without works.

The Gentiles were NEVER given the Law nor did they live under any laws. However, the House of Israel was given the Law and lived under it. Today, if a Jew hears the Grace Gospel and places their faith in Christ they become a part of the Body of Christ and are not required to do works, just like the Gentiles. The Kingdom Gospel that was preached by Peter and the rest was about a time in the future when Christ will return to earth, sit on the throne of David and rule over His people Israel for a thousand years.

The Body of Christ (The Church) which is made up of both Jew and Gentile are promised eternal life in Heaven the moment they leave this world. (Physical death)
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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I personally lean more towards a "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" where the Body of Christ "The Church" will be raptured out of this world before the Tribulation begins. Some believe this, while others take the "Post Tribulation route."
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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If you don't have faith in the Grace Gospel at this time, but wish to learn about eternal life and other Spiritual matters, I suggest you say a prayer to God (even if you doubt He's there) and tell Him to show you the truth of His presence and His Grace. Then, open a Bible (King James or New King James) and begin to read the book of Romans. Give the Holy Spirit a chance to speak to you through the Bible.
 

northwye

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The doctrine which separates Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ comes out of dispensationalism-Christian Zionism. It does not come out of the New Testament.

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10: 12

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29.And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 28-29

"For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5. So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." Romans 12: 4-5

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;" Ephesians 4: 4

But the Christian Zionists will not believe the scriptures. Their authority is their theology. And they will sidestep in some way these scriptures. One tactic of the Zionist sidestep is to attack the one who speaks the scriptures out of the Bible. They cannot abide absolute truth.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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The doctrine which separates Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ comes out of dispensationalism-Christian Zionism. It does not come out of the New Testament.

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10: 12

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29.And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 28-29

"For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5. So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." Romans 12: 4-5

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;" Ephesians 4: 4

But the Christian Zionists will not believe the scriptures. Their authority is their theology. And they will sidestep in some way these scriptures. One tactic of the Zionist sidestep is to attack the one who speaks the scriptures out of the Bible. They cannot abide absolute truth.

I see you're a little bias. What church or denomination are you affiliated with?
 

northwye

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I was never taught the doctrines of dispenationalism-Christian Zionism. When I attended church in my home town the preacher was not preaching dispensationalism-Christin Zionism. That was a few years before W.A. Crisswell led the takeover of the denomination for the dispensationalists. For a few months when I was a Freshman in college I went to a church which, in memory I realize now, was dispensationalist, but the preacher did not emphasize the basic doctrines of dispensationalism.

When I became a Christian some time later I began reading the books of Francis Schaeffer. And, no, Schaeffer did not teach five point Calvinism. He was part of a small denomination and in his last years his L'Abri Fellowship was a home church.

And - when I was in my early teens and went to the church in my home town that denomination was still preaching the doctrine of the priesthood of the believer, a doctrine that W.A. Crisswell led the denomination to get rid of - because in dispenationalism-Christian Zionism the preacher must dominate and control in detail what the congregation believes.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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I was never taught the doctrines of dispenationalism-Christian Zionism. When I attended church in my home town the preacher was not preaching dispensationalism-Christin Zionism. That was a few years before W.A. Crisswell led the takeover of the denomination for the dispensationalists. For a few months when I was a Freshman in college I went to a church which, in memory I realize now, was dispensationalist, but the preacher did not emphasize the basic doctrines of dispensationalism.

When I became a Christian some time later I began reading the books of Francis Schaeffer. And, no, Schaeffer did not teach five point Calvinism. He was part of a small denomination and in his last years his L'Abri Fellowship was a home church.

And - when I was in my early teens and went to the church in my home town that denomination was still preaching the doctrine of the priesthood of the believer, a doctrine that W.A. Crisswell led the denomination to get rid of - because in dispenationalism-Christian Zionism the preacher must dominate and control in detail what the congregation believes.

Obviously, for some "mysterious" reason, you're hiding your religious beliefs? Perhaps you're a cultist? That would be my best case opinion. I see you don't answer questions and don't wish to have conversations, so, I'll let it go at that.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Some folks find it difficult to admit what church or denomination they've been associated with/influenced by? I tend to think they're rather "uneasy" about confessing that information because their opinions from then on may be rejected because of some controversy related to their church, denomination or cult.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Posters who are influenced by cults such as Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, Calvinism, (in my opinion) etc, might not want to blurt out their varied influences for fear of immediate ridicule. I can understand that. However, it makes for a difficult conversation when there's an assortment of beliefs trying to communicate their varied terminology and systems of belief. It's far better to KNOW what camp posters are coming from.
 

northwye

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http://www.poweredbychrist.com/Pretrib_Rapture_Dishonesty.html

Fearlesss Dave MacPhearson write that "When I began my research in 1970 into the exact beginnings of the pretribulation rapture belief still held by many evangelicals, I assumed that the rapture debate involved only "godly scholars with honest differences." The paper you are now reading reveals why I gave up that assumption many years ago. With this introduction-of-sorts in mind, let's take a long look at the pervasive dishonesty throughout the history of the 179-year-old pretrib rapture theory."

MacPhearson wrote a book called "The three R's: Rapture, Revisionism, Robbery : Pretribulation Rapturism From 1830 to Hal Lindsey."

He says "...the Los Angeles Times revealed that “The Magog Factor” (1992) by Hal Lindsey and Chuck Missler was a monstrous plagiarism of Prof. Edwin Yamauchi’s scholarly 1982 work “Foes from the Northern Frontier.” Four months after this exposure, Lindsey and Missler stated they had stopped publishing and promoting their book. But in 1996 Dr. Yamauchi learned that the dishonest duo had issued a 1995 book called “The Magog Invasion” which still had a substantial amount of the same plagiarism! "

"Dallas Seminary professor Merrill Unger’s book “Beyond the Crystal Ball” (Moody Press, 1973) constituted a colossal plagiarism of Lindsey’s “The Late Great Planet Earth” (1970). After Lindsey’s book came out, Unger had complained that Lindsey’s book had plagiarized his classroom lecture notes."

However, if Merrill Unger was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary when Hal Lindsey was a student there and did write notes for his classroom teaching quite similar to what Hal Lindsey wrote in The Late Great Planet Earth, then it is likely that Lindsey plagiarized Unger's notes for Late Great Planet. When Unger's book, Beyond the Crystal Ball came out three years after Late Great Planet and the similarity cold be seen, then since Late Great Planet came out first, it might seem Unger plagiarized Lindsey. But the truth may very well be the opposite.

Many Christians who are not followers of dispensationalism have observed the dishonesty of dispensationalists. Maybe it is a habit they have learned from the dispensationalist celebrities, as well as being a part of their natural man nature.

Christians are not supposed to cultivate their images, their appearances. In fact, the KJV translates the Greek words prosopon and opsis as appearance.

"For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart." II Corinthians 5: 12

"Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's." II Corinthians 10: 7

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." John 7: 24

Celebrities enjoy their fame in order to satisfy their self-esteem. Self-esteem is pride, no matter that Carl Rogers and Abraham H. Maslow taught about self-esteem.

Cultivating image in order to be more accepted by those who claim to be Christians and to sell more books arises out of pride.

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2: 15-16

Dispensationalist celebrities love the world and the pride of life, indicating they remain in the state of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14.

In our post-Christian culture. image is everything. Some years ago,a TV commercial on NBC for Canon cameras told us that "Image is everything." In the image culture success has become more and more a matter of giving an appearance of being successful and attractive. And the main game in the worldly culture is to win image and success for oneself. An artist is successful when he attains to much image.

Network television is responsible for making the the image culture, created earlier by Hollywood movies, much more a dominating part of popular culture.

And - a Christian celebrity with a big image and fame can be much more effective at deceiving those who claim to be Christians into accepting whatever theology the celebrity is pushing, and for most celebrities it is the prfe-trib rapture and Jewish supremacy.

In the age of deception at its height, the urge to deceive people becomes widespread and dominates the institutions of society, not just the media. The 501C(3) IRS incorporated churches are institutions of society, of the world.

There are a large number of Christian celebrities of our time, many of whom are
still living. Some include Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell,
Pat Robertson, Kenneth Copeland, Tim LaHaye, Grant Jeffrey, John
Hagee, Rick Warren, Robert Schuller, Jimmy Swaggart,
and Hal Lindsey. Almost all of these Christian celebrities teach the
pre-tribulation rapture theory, that God has two distinct peoples, the Jews and the Church, that
Christians cannot be Israel and that the Jews, saved or unsaved,
remain the chosen of God. Although
Rick Warren is or was a member of the Southern Baptist denomination, he does not emphasize dispensationalist doctrine as much as Crisswell did. But Rick Warren has said that W. A. Crisswell
was his hero and mentor. Crisswell was into the mega church movement before Warren.

The Christian celebrity system is to a great extent responsible for
the present day widespread
popularity in the Churches of the doctrines of the pre-tribulation
rapture, the radical separation of Church and Jews, and that the Jews remain God's chosen people.
 

Ben Masada

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Anything "outside" of the Grace Gospel doctrine would of necessity, be considered, "Another Gospel." therefore, should be shunned.

How do you want us to understand this post of yours, that Jesus himself should be shunned! According to his gospel which was the Tanach he used to teach to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)
 

Ben Masada

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Jesus was trying to teach the dense and thick jews, but they murdered Him.

"Dense and thick Jews!" Have you ever read the Essay of Mark Twain about the Jews? If you do, you will understand that dense and thick is something you may spend most your life looking for one among the Jews and will probably never find one. There is nothing a Jew loves the most than God's Law. In his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, Jesus said he had not come to abolish the Law but to confirm it down to the letter till heavens and earth passed away. (Matthew 5:17-19) How could the Jews kill such a fellow one? Jesus was killed by the Romans and, the Jews had nothing to do with it. Any attempt to charge the Jews with the death of Jesus will be tantamount to Antisemitism.
 
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patrick jane

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"Dense and thick Jews!" Have you ever read the Essay of Mark Twain about the Jews? If you do, you will understand that dense and thick is something you may spend most your life looking for one and will probably never find. There is nothing a Jew loves the most than God's Law. In his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, he said he had not come to abolish the Law but to confirm it down to the letter till heavens and earth passed away. (Matthew 5:17-19) How could the Jews kill such a fellow one? Jesus was killed by the Romans and, the Jews had nothing to do with it. Any attempt to charge the Jews with the death of Jesus will be tantamount to Antisemitism.
On the contrary, they voted for Jesus to be killed. The Romans tried and tried to replace Jesus with somebody else and repeatedly told the crowd Jesus was not guilty -
 
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