The verses dispys misinterpret--

[Danoh]

Earlier today someone accused me of sounding like an Acts 2 Dispensationalist. Of course, I denied it emphatically. Acts 2 pertained to the House of Israel as well as, Penticost. The Apostle Paul had yet to enter the picture and the Ascended Christ had not given Paul the Grace Gospel to preach to the Gentiles.

Why this poster made this "accusation" isn't apparent to me? He and I had a falling out of sorts and subsequently I placed him on ignore. Rightfully so, I might add. He became somewhat hostile and said I was acting childish. I see that as being ironic. If you'll look up the word "Dispensation" in the secular and religious meanings you'll find a correlation betwixt the two. Peruse this thread and you'll see the relevance of what I'm saying here.

Absolute self-righteous nonsense, on your part.

The fact is that the only opinion you and some of yours agree with is that which allows you your insolent double standard.

The following still stands - you merely proved it true and then revealed your real self once more when I pointed it.

"Consider that just because one comes to hold to Mid-Acts that alone does not make either remaining Acts 2 Dispy distinctions unawares, and or Acts 2 Dispy distinctions that have crept in unawares, automatically disappear."

All you also did was prove once more what you have often proved - that you still have a long way to go beyond the mere basics of MAD.

Even some of your own within MAD on TOL would publicly have agreed with that in quotes were you not all so into enabling one another in this nonsense of yours that some of you masquerade as standing for the truth...

None of us is the issue. Christ alone is.

When all we do is corect others; never agree with them when they are right; and cannot take open correction; that just proves what hypocrites we are.

It is why you and some of yours have been the joke you have been to so many on TOL over the years - beyond the fact of their opposing view.

Has no one taught you and some of yours even the most basic of the fundamentals of the grace life beyond "that's not for us" exclamation point?

Obviously not.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal
kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity,
'...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer,
Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp.
315-323..

Chafer says "The nation Israel, God's chosen earthly people, to whom at
least five-sixths of the Bible is addressed and with whom the great
covenants are made (Rom 9:4-5) -- which covenants secure to that nation a
land, a nation, a throne, a King, and a kingdom -- are now scattered
throughout all the nations of the earth (Deut 4:26-28; Deut 28:63-68; Jer
16:13), and are to remain scattered until they (a remnant; ed.) are
gathered into their own land (Deut 30:3-6; Isa 11:11-12; Isa 14:1-3; Isa
60:1-22; Jer 23:6-8; Jer 32:37-44; Jer 33:7-9; Eze 37:21-25; Mic 4:6-8)
under the reign of Christ Jesus at His return."

Lewis S. Chafer refers to physical Israel as God's earthy chosen people.

Charles C. Ryrie (born 1925) says:
"basic promise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed
in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity." Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today,1966, pp.44-45.

The founders of dispensationalism which became Christian Zionism, hijacking the evangelical church, did not start from scripture. They merely made assertions, for example, that God now has two peoples, implying that there are two groups of saved people.

The first big mistake they made is that New Testament scripture plainly says that there is one fold, or one Body of Christ. They ignore or sidestep the issue when they are reminded that John 10: 16 says there is one fold, that Romans 12: 4-5 says there is one Body of Christ and Ephesians 4: 4 says the same thing.

They depend upon their view of Romans 11: 25-26 a great deal. Yet a doctrine as important as what they claim Romans 11: 25-26 means - that God will select those to be saved on the basis of their physical DNA after the completion of the salvation of the Gentiles - would find some explicit support elsewhere in the New Testament and maybe also in the Old Testament. Where is that support? Dispensationalist-Zionists think it is in some Old Testament texts on the restoration of Israel, but look at what even James does with one of those texts in Acts 15: 14-17, and says the prophets, plural, not just Amos 9: 11-12, which James quotes, but all the prophets of the Old Testament on the restoration of Israel are saying that Israel was remade in Christ. James, in spite of his bragging to Paul in Acts 21: 20-21 that there were then thousands of Jews who believed and were zealous of the law, did not interpret Amos 9: 11-12 as being a restoration of parts of the Old Covenant system.

Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has
"...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93
(October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447

So, to Chafer, scripture was a mass of conflicting writings until John Darby, C.I. Scofield and himself fixed its interpretation to fit dispensatinalist-Zionist doctrine.

Dispensationalist-Zionists use many specific tactics of the sidestep. The sidestep can be a tactic of the dialectic, and the dialectic is an argument in direct opposition to that which is absolute truth or absolute morality, of which scripture is the only certain example. Some laws in physics, like the law of gravity, are examples of absolute truth, though not as absolute as the word of God,.

Good post.

LA

 

[Danoh]

"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal
kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity,
'...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer,
Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp.
315-323..

Chafer says "The nation Israel, God's chosen earthly people, to whom at
least five-sixths of the Bible is addressed and with whom the great
covenants are made (Rom 9:4-5) -- which covenants secure to that nation a
land, a nation, a throne, a King, and a kingdom -- are now scattered
throughout all the nations of the earth (Deut 4:26-28; Deut 28:63-68; Jer
16:13), and are to remain scattered until they (a remnant; ed.) are
gathered into their own land (Deut 30:3-6; Isa 11:11-12; Isa 14:1-3; Isa
60:1-22; Jer 23:6-8; Jer 32:37-44; Jer 33:7-9; Eze 37:21-25; Mic 4:6-8)
under the reign of Christ Jesus at His return."

Lewis S. Chafer refers to physical Israel as God's earthy chosen people.

Charles C. Ryrie (born 1925) says:
"basic promise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed
in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity." Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today,1966, pp.44-45.

The founders of dispensationalism which became Christian Zionism, hijacking the evangelical church, did not start from scripture. They merely made assertions, for example, that God now has two peoples, implying that there are two groups of saved people.

The first big mistake they made is that New Testament scripture plainly says that there is one fold, or one Body of Christ. They ignore or sidestep the issue when they are reminded that John 10: 16 says there is one fold, that Romans 12: 4-5 says there is one Body of Christ and Ephesians 4: 4 says the same thing.

They depend upon their view of Romans 11: 25-26 a great deal. Yet a doctrine as important as what they claim Romans 11: 25-26 means - that God will select those to be saved on the basis of their physical DNA after the completion of the salvation of the Gentiles - would find some explicit support elsewhere in the New Testament and maybe also in the Old Testament. Where is that support? Dispensationalist-Zionists think it is in some Old Testament texts on the restoration of Israel, but look at what even James does with one of those texts in Acts 15: 14-17, and says the prophets, plural, not just Amos 9: 11-12, which James quotes, but all the prophets of the Old Testament on the restoration of Israel are saying that Israel was remade in Christ. James, in spite of his bragging to Paul in Acts 21: 20-21 that there were then thousands of Jews who believed and were zealous of the law, did not interpret Amos 9: 11-12 as being a restoration of parts of the Old Covenant system.

Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has
"...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93
(October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447

So, to Chafer, scripture was a mass of conflicting writings until John Darby, C.I. Scofield and himself fixed its interpretation to fit dispensatinalist-Zionist doctrine.

Dispensationalist-Zionists use many specific tactics of the sidestep. The sidestep can be a tactic of the dialectic, and the dialectic is an argument in direct opposition to that which is absolute truth or absolute morality, of which scripture is the only certain example. Some laws in physics, like the law of gravity, are examples of absolute truth, though not as absolute as the word of God,.

Absolute nonsense on your part - even in Physics one finds the MAD based principle of "things that differ."

Where is the law of gravity in outer space - duh-uh!

Things that differ.

Fact is that the distinction between "the things that differ" that resulted in the Dispensational distinction was the realization that one's completeness in Christ as depicted in Scripture, greatly differed from the error the Reformed tradition had remained in; in its continued fusion of law with grace (conditional blessings and all the rest).

Confusion: fusion with...

But, what is one to expect from those like you and your kind - who in "doing the history" end up having said history do them :chuckle:

 

[heir]

Having said that, do you believe that this "Dispensation of Grace" will end at some point?

Yes, of course. When the last one that will believe on Him to life everlasting has, the Lord will catch up the BoC and the prophetic clock will start ticking again!

 

[heir]

The Madist says that such Grace did not begin until Paul.

The "dispensation of the grace of God" (a specific dispensation to usward) was given to Paul. That's what saith the scripture.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

The cross of Christ bought that Grace and the church of Acts ch 2 enjoyed it.

Madists are saying that Grace will end when Christ returns.

Those of Pentecost wait til the second coming for the grace that "should come unto" them.

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

They look forward to the blotting out of sins

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


We, in the Body of Christ, look back to the cross for the good news of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). We have now received the atonement!

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Things that are different are not the same and you throwing a tantrum will not change what saith the scripture!

 

[northwye]

"Where is the law of gravity in outer space - duh-uh!"

Of course, the law of gravity works in outer space. Otherwise the planets would not revolve around the sun, and the moon would not revolve around the earth. The solar system is also subject to electrical activity, but gravity accounts for more than the electric nature of the universe.

"The sidestep can be a tactic of the dialectic, and the dialectic is an argument in direct opposition to that which is absolute truth or absolute morality, of which scripture is the only certain example. "

False doctrine is defined as an argument against the absolute truth of scripture. In rejecting the truth of scripture those in a system of false doctrines are in effect rejecting faith.

At some point in arguments against the truth of scripture - which is the dialectic of opposition found, for example, in Genesis 3: 1-6 and in the dialogue of the Pharisees with Christ in John 8 - it has to be asked if the person is really more interested in argument for its own sake than truth.

 

[Epoisses]

Nope - YOU are at odds with Jesus and Paul.

Jesus and Paul defined works of the Spirit in the same way.

I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first Rev. 2:19

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal. 5:22

The kingdom gospel of faith plus works(law) is the Judaizing heresy that was condemned by Peter in Acts 15 and Paul in Galatians.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The "dispensation of the grace of God" (a specific dispensation to usward) was given to Paul. That's what saith the scripture.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:



Those of Pentecost wait til the second coming for the grace that "should come unto" them.

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

They look forward to the blotting out of sins

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


We, in the Body of Christ, look back to the cross for the good news of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). We have now received the atonement!

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Things that are different are not the same and you throwing a tantrum will not change what saith the scripture!

LA has had too many glasses of "WHINE."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yes, of course. When the last one that will believe on Him to life everlasting has, the Lord will catch up the BoC and the prophetic clock will start ticking again!

Amen.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Since I decided to place Danoh on ignore, everything seems calmer for some peculiar reason. I think perhaps if someone is trying their best to disrupt your environment of peace, it's far better to remove them from your presence. It makes for a much better conversation with other posters and invigorates your ability to articulate your thoughts without having another poster ruin your experience on TOL. I wholeheartedly recommend placing posters that annoy you on ignore. It creates a sense of freedom that you wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I may consider removing EPO as well. I'll see how it goes. I kinda get a kick outta LA. She adds some levity to the mix. Oh sure, she makes predictions about my imminent demise, but, those predictions are more or less harmless and humorous at the same time.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Posters like Tam, Heir, STP, Glorydaz, Etc. Help make TOL a GREAT Forum.

 

[fzappa13]

The ability of anyone to avail themselves of the gift of grace through faith began at the cross and ends here ...

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The title of this thread is a little misleading. The OP doesn't prove anything. The author of this thread has yet to make a good point nor is able to articulate his thoughts properly. So, since the thread seems to have no real direction, there doesn't seem to be any reason to stay on track. Unless the author starts making sense out of his original reason for creating this thread, it will soon disappear. There're a few Knuckleheads that post on here, however, they're just here to argue. Everybody ought to know who they are by now.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The Grace Gospel began with the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul. The Ascended Lord Jesus Christ met Paul on the road to Damascus and subsequently gave Paul the Grace message which was preached to the Gentiles. Peter and the other Apostles preached the Kingdom message to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Today, only the Grace Gospel will lead both Jew and Gentile to Christ and eternal life.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

People need to concentrate on the writings of Paul: Romans through Philemon, in particular. Although, we need to read and study the entire Bible, as well.

 

[Danoh]

Since I decided to place Danoh on ignore, everything seems calmer for some peculiar reason. I think perhaps if someone is trying their best to disrupt your environment of peace, it's far better to remove them from your presence. It makes for a much better conversation with other posters and invigorates your ability to articulate your thoughts without having another poster ruin your experience on TOL. I wholeheartedly recommend placing posters that annoy you on ignore. It creates a sense of freedom that you wouldn't have otherwise.

Yep; God forbid someone correct him and some of his in public.

Wouldn't want to upset the bliss of their ignorance and onesided agenda.

If the guy is so truly at peace with a past perceived slight; then why does he keep bringing such things up in post after post - how long ago was it that Lazy supposedly said the thing about the beheading?

Yet; not a day goes by with out his mentioning it :chuckle:

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

What characters we really all are in the end :chuckle:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Allow me to emphasize the importance of those who are seeking salvation, forgiveness of sins and eternal life, to spend time reading and studying the writings of Paul (Romans through Philemon) first and foremost. Within those writings, you'll find the Gospel for today. If you're looking for faith to believe, this is what the Bible says in Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Remember this, the WHOLE Bible is for us (The Gentiles) however, not all of it pertains to us (Gentiles) In some writings, the inspired writer is speaking to the "House of Israel." (The Jews) Today, we live in what's called, "The Dispensation of Grace." It's a period of time when God is dispensing His Grace according to the Death and resurrection (Shedding of His blood) of the Lord Jesus Christ. This Dispensation will last until all of those who are to become part of the Body of Christ have been accounted for. Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Although, Israel has been "blinded in part" there are Jews who will hear the Gospel and become part of the Body of Christ today. The Grace Gospel is for both the Gentiles and the Jews today.