The Two Faces of the Sabbath

God's Truth

New member
Or He was warning believing Jews of the temple destruction to come...and instructing them to pray the Sabbath would/could still be kept in this future time of trouble...

The scriptures do not say what you claim.

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

Why would He warn rejecting Jews? Why would rejecting Jews believe His warning and obey His command to pray the Sabbath be kept?

Why ask why? Just believe what is written.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! 38Look, your house is left to you desolate.

Believing Jews still kept "temple laws" as Peter kept kosher and Paul the sabbath and even made a vow to prove he was faithful to it and the faith of his fathers being a Jews Jew and all...claimed this at his defense

While the temple stood Jesus told his disciples to follow the temple laws because those who rejected Jesus sat in Moses' seat. The pharisees and teachers of the law reinforced the old laws and would kill those who did not follow it.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you.
It was false witnesses that accused him of preaching a change to the Law

Paul did preach the New Covenant.
 

clefty

New member
The scriptures do not say what you claim.
sure they do...time of trouble was coming they were gong to have to flee...He instructed:

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.



Why ask why? Just believe what is written.

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! 38Look, your house is left to you desolate.

I do believe...you are the one insisting I not believe He was warning the time of trouble was coming and to pray the fleeing was not on Sabbath to break its keeping...

As if non believers would believe Him...



While the temple stood Jesus told his disciples to follow the temple laws because those who rejected Jesus sat in Moses' seat. The pharisees and teachers of the law reinforced the old laws and would kill those who did not follow it.
yup He sure did...told them to keep the Law as written as they taught and not as they did even...Pharisees were hypocrites

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you.


Paul did preach the New Covenant.
yup...and the keeping of the OT not to gain salvation but because they were saved..."copy me" he said "as I copy Christ"...who Himself said "As I keep my Father's law and remain in His love."

New covenant same unchanging Law...immutable and binding still pointing to the good things to come...

Might I suggest this?

http://fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html
 

clefty

New member
Paul is saying they are a shadow - looking from the law towards Christ, but the substance IS Christ > and the shadows are no more. You can keep the Sabbath if you choose, but it's just a shadow. Scripture shows that rest is in Christ the Lord, not in a day.

Why are you so hung up on keeping a shadow when now we are in the Light? It is impossible to correctly observe (according to the Levitical requirements) the Sabbaths outside the ancient boundaries of Israel.


Isaiah 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

Matthew 4:16
the people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

Luke 1:79
to give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Hebrews 8:5
who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

John 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

2 Corinthians 4:4
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


It was prophesied that the Sabbaths would cease:

Hos 2
9 “Therefore I will return and take away My grain in its time And My new wine in its season, And will take back My wool and My linen, Given to cover her nakedness.

10 Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, And no one shall deliver her from My hand.

11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths—All her appointed feasts


Lam 2
6 He has done violence to His tabernacle, As if it were a garden; He has destroyed His place of assembly; The Lord has caused The appointed feasts and Sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion. In His burning indignation He has spurned the king and the priest.

Think not that I have come to destroy...ok?

Keeping His law is keeping His Father's law...as He did...their house is not divided

To live and love JUST AS He did includes keeping a physical day Sabbath as He did...refreshing isn't it?

No Sunday Ham here...
 

Samie

New member
Please consider:

1. Our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ - our Shepherd - commands us - His sheep - to FOLLOW Him.
2. It is the custom of our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever to be in church on Saturdays.
3. His sheep who follow Him are, of course, also in church on Saturdays.

Any objection?
 

God's Truth

New member
Please consider:

1. Our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ - our Shepherd - commands us - His sheep - to FOLLOW Him.
2. It is the custom of our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever to be in church on Saturdays.
3. His sheep who follow Him are, of course, also in church on Saturdays.

Any objection?

Jesus' body is the church.

Observing special days is now worthless.

Colossians 1:18
And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.

Galatians 4:9 But now that you know God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you are turning back to those weak and worthless principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!…
 

God's Truth

New member
sure they do...time of trouble was coming they were gong to have to flee...He instructed:

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.





I do believe...you are the one insisting I not believe He was warning the time of trouble was coming and to pray the fleeing was not on Sabbath to break its keeping...

As if non believers would believe Him...



yup He sure did...told them to keep the Law as written as they taught and not as they did even...Pharisees were hypocrites

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you.


yup...and the keeping of the OT not to gain salvation but because they were saved..."copy me" he said "as I copy Christ"...who Himself said "As I keep my Father's law and remain in His love."

New covenant same unchanging Law...immutable and binding still pointing to the good things to come...

Might I suggest this?

http://fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html

You said the scripture said to pray for the Sabbath. I proved the scripture does not say what you claim.

The earthly temple is no longer standing and no one is to follow the old law anymore.

Jesus came and taught the New Covenant.

The New Covenant is the Old with some changes.

There was a change to that old law.

Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
 

Samie

New member
Jesus' body is the church.

Observing special days is now worthless.
So why observe Sunday as your day of gathering together in church, if to observe it is worthless?

What is of greater worth is FOLLOWING our Shepherd, Savior and Lord, Who gave us an example worthy of emulation. What prevents people from emulating the example of the Lord?
 

God's Truth

New member
So why observe Sunday as your day of gathering together in church, if to observe it is worthless?
The day of the week one gets together does not matter.

What is of greater worth is FOLLOWING our Shepherd, Savior and Lord, Who gave us an example worthy of emulation. What prevents people from emulating the example of the Lord?

What do you have in mind?
 

Samie

New member
The day of the week one gets together does not matter.
So why fault those who get together on Saturdays in emulating the example of our Shepherd, and not those who get together and follow another shepherd leading them to church on Sundays?
 

God's Truth

New member
So why fault those who get together on Saturdays in emulating the example of our Shepherd, and not those who get together and follow another shepherd leading them to church on Sundays?

You are the one faulting people. You fault those who gather on Sunday, and you fault those who say the day does not matter. Just read your post because it shows you fault others when you say those who get together on a Sunday follow another shepherd.
 

Samie

New member
You are the one faulting people. You fault those who gather on Sunday, and you fault those who say the day does not matter. Just read your post because it shows you fault others when you say those who get together on a Sunday follow another shepherd.
Don't they?
 

Samie

New member
If they followed our Shepherd, they would have gathered in church on Saturdays, which is the custom of our Shepherd, Saviour and Lord Who is the same, yesterday, today and forever.
 

clefty

New member
You said the scripture said to pray for the Sabbath. I proved the scripture does not say what you claim.
proved what? Missed that. Prove it again please because as I read it He says a future time of trouble is coming, pray the Sabbath is kept, not any other law btw just the Sabbath...

The earthly temple is no longer standing and no one is to follow the old law anymore.
during the period between temples no believers? Hardly...the prophecy is clear "I will right MY Laws in their hearts and minds" their physical bodily temples...

Jesus came and taught the New Covenant.
yes He did...and was clear... It's not LORD! LORD! But those that do the will of the Father...which is to obey His Law...as the Son claimed He did and remained in His Father's love

The New Covenant is the Old with some changes.
Covenants are not the Law. "Think NOT that I have come to destroy the Law." Change destroys the original.

There was a change to that old law.
the change was not in the 10 but in the administration of the 10...its priesthood

Imagine it being one of the 613, you know, in the section that doesn't even apply to you but the Levites...

Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.

Yup...change OF the law NOT change IN it...

Relax this fuss is all about a day of rest...all this to reject 1 of the 10 written in hearts and minds of church in the wilderness...the house of Israel...

All the other commandments are accepted but the Sabbath one...because man's tradition > Yah's 10 commandments

Pray that the Sabbath be kept...and in the future time of trouble...

Isaiah said all will worship Sabbath to Sabbath...of the survivors it looks like
 

clefty

New member
If they followed our Shepherd, they would have gathered in church on Saturdays, which is the custom of our Shepherd, Saviour and Lord Who is the same, yesterday, today and forever.

Yup...no Sunday Ham doing AS He did...
 

Ben Masada

New member
If they followed our Shepherd, they would have gathered in church on Saturdays, which is the custom of our Shepherd, Saviour and Lord Who is the same, yesterday, today and forever.

I don't think so. If you mean Jesus, he did gather on Saturdays but not in churches because he was a Jew and Jews don't gather in churches but in synagogues. Didn't you know that?
 

Samie

New member
I don't think so. If you mean Jesus, he did gather on Saturdays but not in churches because he was a Jew and Jews don't gather in churches but in synagogues. Didn't you know that?
Synagogues are for Jews as churches are for Christians. Didn't you know that?
 
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