How long do you believe he was alive on the cross? A couple of days maybe? How about a week or two?
The Two Faces of the Sabbath
- Thread starter Ben Masada
- Start date
How long do you believe he was alive on the cross? A couple of days maybe? How about a week or two?
TweetyBird
New member
Jesus was born as High Priest of the order of Melchizedek.
Jesus never sinned because He is God and sinless. Jesus was never anointed as a priest. He was always the High Priest/King of Righteousness.
He set that day aside for Israel under the old covenant. That covenant no longer exists.
TweetyBird
New member
He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane and onward until He died. He was betrayed, arrested, beaten, mocked, subjected to false accusations, sentenced to death by his own people. He was bruised and hated, bearing the sin of the world.
Adam's first full day was a Sabbath. Everything made at creation was for man. As affirmed with "the Sabbath was made for man"
Do you think God needed the fish? Or the moon? Rest?
"And He was refreshed" by Sabbath is also written as an example we were made to mirror. Or do you think "made in His image" refers to our appearance only? We were made to be with Him to be like Him to reflect Him, His character, do as He did...
Why was the Sabbath set aside from the other days? Sanctified and made Holy? As with anything else made holy it is to be used for worship. There is water and then water considered Holy we use the latter for worship. There is bread and then bread considered Holy we use Holy bread for worship...there is ground and then ground considered holy...ok you do get the pattern yes?
Do you think He needed it to remind Himself He was the creator who created all?
After sin Yah cursed everything He made...the ground, the animals, man...but not the Sabbath...thankfully He spared it as NOW more than ever man would need its rest from toiling a cursed ground to eat by the sweat of his brow...what mercy! what grace! and as a blessing the Sabbath was spared and given to point to One who will restore us to Himself and restore us to a final rest when we are again in a physical world without sin.
It absurd to think He made His Sabbath and did not give it to man...He is Love gave everything to us even His own...LOVE...not a new commandment but one heard from the beginning...
LOL so He is a period of time which exists every seventh day?
LOL He modelled it as an example...based His authority on it as calling Himself Lord of the Sabbath...and of all the commandments He only instructed prayers be made that its keeping continue into the future...even after He was returned into heaven
SEE? You are correct He did NOT say He was a physical day.
so He lied when He said it was given to man? All mankind. It actually is the only commandment that includes the non Israelite as receiving it...even animals got it...
He was falsely accused by the Pharisees for breaking the Sabbath and they were wrong as He modelled the true spirit of the Sabbath to do good works...to heal and refresh others too....to LOVE...the command not new but heard from the beginning...and to love JUST AS He did includes rest healing refreshment and worship on one in seven days...the seventh day
Does Isaiah lie too when he says of paradise from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath all will worship?
TweetyBird
New member
Creation was made for God, including mankind.
God never commanded Adam to keep a Sabbath day. God met with Adam and Eve every evening and walked with them in the Garden. That is like the Sabbath we have now in Christ Jesus - except He walks with us and is in us 24/7. Absolutely amazing!
I don't see a verse that states "And He was refreshed".
No. There was no water and bread set aside at creation. Just God saying that He rested from creating and sanctified the day for Himself.
God stated many times in the Bible that "He remembered". Apparently it was not an actual reminder like He needed an alert from His smartphone.
That makes no sense. A segment of time cannot be defiled. No one kept or observed the Sabbath for 2500 years until God gave it to Israel as a sign.
God did not give the Sabbath to all mankind. He only gave it to Israel under the old covenant Mosaic Law. The Sabbath was made for man through Jesus Christ because He is our eternal rest.
Jesus did not say that He was falsely accused. He agreed with them.
The commandment to love one another was brand new, unheard of, fresh. Israel was only commanded to love her own. Jesus' commandment was to love all - because He was sent to die for the whole world. That alone shows that the Mosaic Law was passing away.
It's allegorical for Christ. Jesus is the Sabbath and He is the Light and we all worship Him for all eternity.
Revelation 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
it remains "the Sabbath was made for man" and NOT "the Sabbath was made for God" certainly not "the Sabbath was made for Jews"
Or did He lie?
I imagine adam didn't need a commandment for that...he wanted to be with God and do as He did, you know, being made in His image...
it doesn't say that...
And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. (Genesis 3:8)
But we do have He rested the seventh day and made it Holy...
so a speculation is what you have now too? This is Adam:
"And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid"
Yahushua er Yeshua asked we follow Him and do as He did...that's 24/7 and would still lead us to Sabbath keeping...
Yah speaking here:
"(Sabbath)will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'
Are you part of Israel?
You would have Him lying here 3 times...not forever not for us and not refreshing
Why?
lol...
and making it Holy...
What are you inferring by saying sanctifying it was for Himself? Again that is not how it is written.
This was all even before sin entered in...making something set aside was to make it useful for worship...a tool to express our loyalty to the One who is and is Holy...
Six day were for work and seventh was for worship...His people are sanctified by that which is sanctified...
apparently...obviously He said He remembered Himself...He didn't instruct Himself to remember something later...He instructed humans to remember that this was what His people had done in the past...Hebrews were then being reminded of that and to remember to do it in the future...like Yahushua er Yeshua did with instructions that prayers be said that in the future times of trouble the Sabbath would be kept...
LOL...of course it...can especially when it was specifically sanctified and made Holy...
Recall "I hated your Sabbaths"
If a segment of time can be made Holy it certainly can be defiled...what it can not be done is changed or altered as He meant what He said when He said forever...
LOL...So the Law was unknown before Sinai? Or just parts of it and the rest of it was revealed progressively as need arose?
So Jesus lied when He said the Sabbath was made for man?
The Law was to reveal sin. Are you implying only Israel sins? LOL
Abraham was not Jewish nor of Israel...what commandments and statutes did he keep?
Even at Sinai the sabbath commandment is the ONLY one that includes the goyim specifically are to keep it...
Isaiah makes clear all mankind will worship Sabbath to Sabbath and goyim specifically who keep the Sabbath will be given a new name...included into His people...
As if "for God so loved just Jews"...LOL
You really are twisting and streching...please show how you got this...
He affirmed Sabbath and revealed how it was intended...as if Pharisees > Lord of the Sabbath who created it...
lol...it was already in Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
nope...His House of prayer was to be for ALL nations...through them His Name was to be made great for ALL people...
Mosiac covenant was passing away...NOT Yah's Law...it remains in the hearts and minds of spiritual Israel...
Is why Paul says it remains for the people of God...a Sabbath keeping
wow... you just continue to add to the Word to prop up what you added previously...you have to...
Yup no need of the light of the sun or moon the city had...but the rest of the restored new earth will continue to keep count just as it was initially intended when in the garden the first full day for man was a Sabbath...
HalleluYah
TweetyBird
New member
The Sabbath was given to Israel.
Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
The Sabbath required commandments and statutes, which I know you cannot keep because the Sabbath required sacrifices.
What does that have to do with keeping the Sabbath day?
That is what I said.
But we don't see that Adam and Eve kept a Sabbath Day. It was given to Israel and to no one before then.
Deut 5
3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
For Himself.
No, I am not part of Israel. I am grafted into Jesus Christ.
God never called the 7th day, the Sabbath Day, until He gave it to Israel.
It is written that way - sanctified for Himself. GOD RESTED. Why did He rest? To rest from creating the world. Why did He sanctify the 7th day - because He rested from all His work that He created.
Gen 1
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The Sabbath day was not given for worship. The commandment for the Sabbath never included worship.
Israel was never sanctified by the Sabbath because they were in unbelief - Heb 4.
Ezekiel 23:38
Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.
Hebrews says no such thing. It states that the day is TODAY, not a certain day.
You are putting words in His mouth.
Actually, God said this:
Hos 2
9 “Therefore I will return and take away My grain in its time And My new wine in its season, And will take back My wool and My linen, Given to cover her nakedness.
10 Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, And no one shall deliver her from My hand.
11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths—All her appointed feasts
Lam 2
6 He has done violence to His tabernacle, As if it were a garden; He has destroyed His place of assembly; The Lord has caused The appointed feasts and Sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion. In His burning indignation He has spurned the king and the priest.
It was unknown before Mt Sinai. If the people knew about it, God would not have had to give it to them.
The Law of Moses was for a time - a shadow of what was to come. It was incomplete. It most certainly did not reveal all sin.
To go where God said to go and do what God said to do. Abraham did not have the Law of Moses - per Deut5:3.
There was no commandment at Mt Sinai for the nations to keep the Sabbath. Only those within Israel's gates.
That is because there was a change in the New Covenant - the Sabbath is Christ, not a day.
The Sabbath is not about God's love for all mankind. It was a burden and a yoke and still is to this day for Israel.
Please show where Jesus disagreed with the Pharisees that He was not keeping the Sabbath.
No, Jesus did not "create" the Sabbath that was given to Israel. The 7th day has always existed. It was nothing special to mankind until it was given to Israel as a sign.
Within Israel. This was not imparted to the Gentiles. The Gentile nations were hated, not loved. Israel always viewed the nations as unclean = read Acts 10.
We were discussing the Sabbath, not His house of prayer.
I don't believe in a "spiritual Israel". The Mosaic Law is the covenant that God made with Israel. It was also called God's Law --- but it is not all of God's Law - which is why we have the new covenant, replacing the old covenant, which was carnal and which God found fault with - else there would have been no reason for Jesus to die for sin.
I think you are referring to Hebrews. It says that the day of rest is another day aka Jesus Christ and in Him it is kept. There is no purpose in having a special day when one is in Christ. They are at rest eternally.
The NT states that the Sabbath was a shadow, but now we are the body of Christ. In other words, the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ as part of His body.
That is not what the Scripture states.
Isa 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved,
and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll:
and all their host shall fall down,
as the leaf falleth off from the vine,and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Isaiah 24:23
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
Isaiah 60:19
The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
Ezekiel 32:7
And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Joel 2:10
The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joel 3:15
The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
TweetyBird
New member
We have differing views as to what Jesus said. Based on Jesus' words, and Hebrews 3 and 4, I go with the Sabbath [Rest] being Jesus. No one can keep the 7th day as a day of rest, so Jesus was referring to another day = Himself.
Yamim are neither twelve nor twenty-four hour days.
Genesis 2:4-7
4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created: in a yom [YHWH] Elohim made earth and heavens.
5 And no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprouted: for Elohim had not rained upon the earth, and there was not an adam to till the adamah.
6 But there went up a fountain out of the earth and watered the whole face of the adamah.
7 And Elohim formed the adam of dust from the adamah and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the adam became a living soul.
In a yom [YHWH] Elohim made earth and heavens, (Genesis 2:4).
Exodus 20:11
11 For in six yamim YHWH made the heavens and the earth, ha-yam, and all that is in them, and He rested in ha-yom the seventh: wherefore YHWH blessed Yom ha-Shabbat and hallowed it.
In a yom [YHWH] Elohim made earth and heavens, (Genesis 2:4).
In six yamim YHWH made the heavens and the earth, (Exodus 20:11).
A "yom" therefore has multiple "yamim" within it and this is the commandment:
Exodus 20:9
9 Six yamim shall you labor and do all your work:
10 But the seventh yom is the Shabbat to YHWH your Elohey: you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates:
Six yamim-hours of labor and work but the seventh is the daily Shabbat hour.
Therefore the seventh yom-day of the week is likewise the weekly Shabbat.
The seventh hour of the seventh day is a Shabbat in its Shabbat.
"Lord of the Sabbath" becomes lord of Himself...
He calls Himself a lot of things but never a a Sabbath, let alone a literal day...
And we really aren't in the literal eternal rest yet...even Sabbath is but a day...His spiritual rest once achieved in paradise is longer
The literal rest He gives us now is just for a day...a shadow of the good things to come...
Someday we will cross over Jordan...but until then a sabbath keeping remains for the people of God...
TweetyBird
New member
Lord of the Rest. Jesus is Rest - Eternal rest is in Him.
Jesus said:
Matt 11
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
I never said He calls Himself a literal day.
There is no rest on the Sabbath day. The only true rest is in Jesus Christ. I have been in His spiritual rest since I believed that He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Savior, Redeemer, Messiah, my Sabbath Rest. That will never change.
That is why spending a day of the week thinking you are resting is no longer the rest of God. Yes, it WAS a shadow. NOW we have the LIGHT and Jesus said to come to Him for rest.
We are not crossing Jordan to get to eternal life. We have that now in Christ for all eternity - His rest and peace.
John 14
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
John 16
31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? 32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Psalm 95
O come, let us worship and bow down:
let us kneel before the Lord our maker.
7
For he is our God;
and we are the people of his pasture,
and the sheep of his hand.
To day if ye will hear his voice,
8
harden not your heart, as in the provocation,
and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9
when your fathers tempted me,
proved me, and saw my work.
10
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation,
and said, It is a people that do err in their heart,
and they have not known my ways:
11
unto whom I sware in my wrath
that they should not enter into my rest.
Psalm 132
For the Lord hath chosen Zion;
he hath desired it for his habitation.
14
This is my rest for ever:
here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
Isaiah 11:10
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isaiah 28
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk,
and drawn from the breasts.
10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little:
11
for with stammering lips and another tongue
will he speak to this people.
12
To whom he said,
This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;
and this is the refreshing:
yet they would not hear.
13
But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward,
and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Isaiah 30:15
For thus saith the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
Heb 3
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 when your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Heb 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Psalm 91
Take it up with Paul...
"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."
Yup present tense...and still are...
let no one judge you but the Body of Christ...
Sabbath made for man...still
Stop making liars out of Paul and Yahushua...
God's Truth
New member
The plan for salvation being through Jesus was a plan God the Father made before the creation of ANYTHING.
The Sabbath observance is about Jesus Christ.
Jesus is our Sabbath Rest.
Since Jesus came, we observe Jesus all day every day and we no longer have to observe days.
Lol...So when He instructs prayers be said that fleeing during the time of trouble not be on the Sabbath He was actually making it impossible for them to flee at all...since now Sabbath is every day...
God's Truth
New member
He was speaking to the Jews who rejected him and who still followed the temple laws.
Or He was warning believing Jews of the temple destruction to come...and instructing them to pray the Sabbath would/could still be kept in this future time of trouble...
Why would He warn rejecting Jews? Why would rejecting Jews believe His warning and obey His command to pray the Sabbath be kept?
Believing Jews still kept "temple laws" as Peter kept kosher and Paul the sabbath and even made a vow to prove he was faithful to it and the faith of his fathers being a Jews Jew and all...claimed this at his defense
It was false witnesses that accused him of preaching a change to the Law
TweetyBird
New member
Paul is saying they are a shadow - looking from the law towards Christ, but the substance IS Christ > and the shadows are no more. You can keep the Sabbath if you choose, but it's just a shadow. Scripture shows that rest is in Christ the Lord, not in a day.
Why are you so hung up on keeping a shadow when now we are in the Light? It is impossible to correctly observe (according to the Levitical requirements) the Sabbaths outside the ancient boundaries of Israel.
Isaiah 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Matthew 4:16
the people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
Luke 1:79
to give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Hebrews 8:5
who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
John 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
2 Corinthians 4:4
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
It was prophesied that the Sabbaths would cease:
Hos 2
9 “Therefore I will return and take away My grain in its time And My new wine in its season, And will take back My wool and My linen, Given to cover her nakedness.
10 Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, And no one shall deliver her from My hand.
11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths—All her appointed feasts
Lam 2
6 He has done violence to His tabernacle, As if it were a garden; He has destroyed His place of assembly; The Lord has caused The appointed feasts and Sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion. In His burning indignation He has spurned the king and the priest.