The Trinity

[lifeisgood]

I've learned enough to know that the OLDEST Christian tradition that teaches the Trinity that YOU BELIEVE is the Catholic Church, and that makes discussing the Catholic Church ITT right on topic.

Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that. (Mark 7:13)

The Catholic Church is the Church in the Bible.

YOUR Catholic Church is the ROMAN Catholic Church which is not biblical.

Her bishops are the bishops in the Bible.

Show me from the Bible or from historical facts that one of the bishops/overseers/apostles in the Bible approved of pedophilia going on still in the ROMAN Catholic Church right now and paid millions to cover it up. Just one example.

Her teaching on the Trinity is what YOU BELIEVE.

No! I believe what the Bible tells me and I do not need the ROMAN Catholic Church to teach me about the Triunity of God; He did that all on His own and left it all written down in His word.

There is no authorized, infallible teaching to do that.

But the Popes have never come out and condemn the kissing of statues, rosaries, bowing down to them, etc. have they? Oh, no, they simply extend their hands and expect the ring to be kissed.

Where? In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, where?

Have you never seen in the Vatican catholics kneeling down and walking on their knees until they bleed?

Have you never seen the Popes' rings are kissed?

Have you never seen catholics bowing down to Popes? Or statues? Or lighting candles, etc.?

Where in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is this taught?

Does not the ROMAN Catholic Church teach that Peter is the first Pope? I though you knew your history.

Peter infallibly and unilaterally declared that all of Paul's epistles were Scripture.

Yes, because Paul was right and Peter confirmed that Paul was right.

Paul opposed Peter to his face, for what he did was very wrong.

And you know what is most incredible for me about Peter?
It is not that the ROMAN Catholic Church declares that he was the first Pope.

What is most incredible to me about Peter is that Peter humbled himself before Paul and accepted the reprimand publicly. Didn't say, 'Paul, here, kiss my ring, cause I'm the Pope.'

What is an infallible pope? That's not a Catholic or Christian term.

The idea of the infallibility of the pope was defined at the first Vatican Council in 1869.

And what is your trouble with the Church living out what Paul said, preaching Christ and Him crucified?

The ROMAN Catholic Church teach that there is no salvation outside of the ROMAN Catholic Church. Where did any of the Apostles teach that?

The Church that hashed out the Trinity teaching is not acceptable to you? You're all over the place.

You give too much credit to the RCC, Nihilo.

God does NOT need the RCC to tell Him who He is.
God left all that He wants us to know about Him written in the Bible.

Vs. that Christ spoke a language in which the word for rock and Peter's name are the same. When translated into Greek (cf. John 1:42 KJV) of course the fact that the Greek word for rock is feminine became an issue, and Peter, being a man, would have to have the feminine word turned masculine. Otherwise you'd have him with a feminine name.

Nonsense.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Nope. Had he not believed God, He wouldn't have built the ark, and then would have perished with the rest of the world in the flood.

His building the ark was a result of his belief.

Exactly.

The same goes For the works of any believer.

 

[JudgeRightly]

As you can see most folks still have their eyes closed.

Says the heretic who rejects scripture in favor of his own interpretation, who twists scripture to fit his beliefs, who denies his God.

 

[keypurr]

Says the heretic who rejects scripture in favor of his own interpretation, who twists scripture to fit his beliefs, who denies his God.

Any one who disagrees with you and the churches is called a heretic. I am OK with that, they threw stones at Jesus also. Maybe when you have put as much time into scripture reading as I have you MIGHT agree with me, but you will have to start think outside the box to see it.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

 

[JudgeRightly]

Exactly.

The same goes For the works of any believer.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Noah was made righteous because of his faith, before he did any works. He wasn't made righteous because of the works he did in addition to his belief. He was made righteous from his belief, and because of his belief, he was made righteous, and as a result of that, he obeyed. His obedience only saved him from the floodwaters. It didn't save him from hellfire.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:22-23&version=NKJV

 

[God's Truth]

No, I don't want your OUT OF CONTEXT use of God's Word.
I don't want your ADDED words to God's Word.

I do not such thing.

 

[lifeisgood]

At the dawn of the ROMAN Catholic Church around 325 AD, they changed many of the doctrines taught in the Bible, making Mary a deity, empowering the “RCC” as your salvation instead of Jesus Christ being the one and only way to salvation, changed the baptism taught by Jesus and His apostles, including Peter, and indoctrinated many false concepts.

The ROMAN Catholic Church even say that the mother of Jesus is the only way whereby you may receive grace. It's true that Mary was blessed to carry and give birth to Jesus, but she was not a God, Mary was simply a Jewish woman. She herself said she needed a Savior.

They made it a crime punishable by death to attempt to actually read the Bible for yourself and/or contradict the ROMAN Catholic Church during the Dark Ages, and they have killed an estimated 68 million Christians over the years for refusing to bow to the false doctrine of the ROMAN Catholic church.

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P.S. Above is a compilation of many read books.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Any one who disagrees with you and the churches is called a heretic.

So the Bible is the church, got it. :mock:

I am OK with that, they threw stones at Jesus also. Maybe when you have put as much time into scripture reading as I have you MIGHT agree with me, but you will have to start think outside the box to see it.

Again, this coming from someone who rejects what the Bible, aka (at least to you) the "church," says.

I think I'll stick to what Scripture says, and not what you teach.

 

[lifeisgood]

According to the ROMAN Catholic Church you must do all of the following in order to receive salvation:

• Confess your sins to a Roman Catholic priest.
• "Receive" all appropriate Roman Catholic sacraments.
• Believe that Grace comes only via Rome's sacraments, and only through Mary.
• Buy or earn as many indulgences as possible so as to avoid Purgatory.
• Believe that Grace can only be distributed to you by Mary.
• Attend the Roman Catholic Mass on all Sundays and holy days.
• Obey all of Rome's rules (i.e., precepts of the Church).
• Be a member of the Roman Catholic Church.
• Submit yourself to the Pope.

All of the above only make you subservient to the ROMAN Catholic Church and do not ensure your place with God at all.

The Bible teaches that you must believe in Jesus and will be saved by the grace of God upon hearing the Gospel of salvation, and that it's exclusively by the grace of God, not Mary or Rome. We are saved exclusively by Jesus Christ and His vicarious/finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary.

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P.S. Above is a compilation of many read books including the Catechism.

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Every person who believes there is a God is faced with one inescapable, ultimate question: "What must I do to be saved?!"

Do you really know what you must do to be saved, to have assurance of a place in Heaven? Read the Bible and seek the Truth! Please!

 

[lifeisgood]

The Roman Catholic leaders today are even saying that you don’t really need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved!

Article #841 of the Catechism says: "The Church's relationship with the Muslims. 'The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.'" This means that the Catholic church believes that the Muslims will be saved just like anyone else even though Muslims don't believe in Jesus, and that they worship the same God that we all do even though Allah was originally a pagan moon god.

Muslims say you don’t need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved! Muslims will admit that Jesus Christ was a true prophet, but deny that He was the Messiah (although some Western Muslims will say He was anointed), they will deny that He was God manifested in the flesh as of the Son of God (John 1:14), and they will deny that He died on the cross and rose again. That belief cannot be truth because Jesus Christ Himself said He was the Messiah, and said He was the Son of God!

 

[popsthebuilder]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Noah was made righteous because of his faith, before he did any works. He wasn't made righteous because of the works he did in addition to his belief. He was made righteous from his belief, and because of his belief, he was made righteous, and as a result of that, he obeyed. His obedience only saved him from the floodwaters. It didn't save him from hellfire.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:22-23&version=NKJV

You are missing something very simple it seems.

His works were a product of his faith. Without faith he would have neither had works or been found righteous.

Faiths effectual.

If no effect then no real belief. Not that said effect is for the sight of man by any means.

 

[God's Truth]

You are missing something very simple it seems.

His works were a product of his faith. Without faith he would have neither had works or been found righteous.

Faiths effectual.

If no effect then no real belief. Not that said effect is for the sight of man by any means.

A person can receive faith AFTER they obey.

Before or after but never saved without both.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Roman Catholic leaders today are even saying that you don’t really need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved!

Article #841 of the Catechism says: "The Church's relationship with the Muslims. 'The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.'" This means that the Catholic church believes that the Muslims will be saved just like anyone else even though Muslims don't believe in Jesus, and that they worship the same God that we all do even though Allah was originally a pagan moon god.

Muslims say you don’t need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved! Muslims will admit that Jesus Christ was a true prophet, but deny that He was the Messiah (although some Western Muslims will say He was anointed), they will deny that He was God manifested in the flesh as of the Son of God (John 1:14), and they will deny that He died on the cross and rose again. That belief cannot be truth because Jesus Christ Himself said He was the Messiah, and said He was the Son of God!

It would behoove us all to study for ourselves; without prefoncieved bias or input from outside sources, the core sacred text of any said faith before being so accusatory.

The Quran itself says that Jesus is the Messiah.

3:45. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Allâh gives you good tidings through a (prophetic) word from Him (about the birth of a son) whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, (he shall be) worthy of regard in this world and in the Hereafter and one of the nearest ones (to Him),

5:72. Indeed, they have disbelieved who say, ‘Allâh - He is the Messiah, son of Mary,’ whereas the Messiah (himself) said, ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh Who is my Lord and your Lord.’ Surely whoso associates partners with Allâh, him has Allâh forbidden Paradise, and his resort will be the Fire and these transgressors shall have no helpers.

9:31. They have taken their learned men and their monks for lords apart from Allâh, and (similarly they have taken) the Messiah, son of Mary, whilst they were enjoined to worship none but One God. There is no other, cannot be and will never be One worthy of worship but He. Too glorified is He for what they associate (with Him).


Do you dare condemn all Christianity due to the actions of the ancient rcc? I would think not. The same standard should be exuded towards all.... Again works show the desire and desired home of the heart.

peace

 

[glorydaz]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Noah was made righteous because of his faith, before he did any works. He wasn't made righteous because of the works he did in addition to his belief. He was made righteous from his belief, and because of his belief, he was made righteous, and as a result of that, he obeyed. His obedience only saved him from the floodwaters. It didn't save him from hellfire.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:22-23&version=NKJV

:first:

 

[JudgeRightly]

A person can receive faith AFTER they obey.

Before or after but never saved without both.

So then what saved this man?

But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - Luke 23:40-43 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke23:40-43&version=NKJV

It certainly wasn't because he obeyed the law. He was being put to death for murder. And he did no works after being put to death, because he was dead.

If as you say BOTH faith and works are required, how was this man saved? Was it not his faith alone that Jesus saw and therefore because of it He promised the man to be in paradise?

The man wasn't a jew, and therefore most likely knew very little of any ceremonial works, so that's out of the picture.

 

[Right Divider]

I do not such thing.

The Bible: "the three are one".
GT: "the three are one AND THE SAME"

 

[glorydaz]

You are missing something very simple it seems.

His works were a product of his faith. Without faith he would have neither had works or been found righteous.

Faiths effectual.

If no effect then no real belief. Not that said effect is for the sight of man by any means.

He didn't miss anything. :nono:

 

[popsthebuilder]

So then what saved this man?

But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - Luke 23:40-43 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke23:40-43&version=NKJV

It certainly wasn't because he obeyed the law. He was being put to death for murder. And he did no works after being put to death, because he was dead.

If as you say BOTH faith and works are required, how was this man saved? Was it not his faith alone that Jesus saw and therefore because of it He promised the man to be in paradise?

The man wasn't a jew, and therefore most likely knew very little of any ceremonial works, so that's out of the picture.

Nonsense; his belief was effectual; hence his rebuke towards the other thief.

 

[God's Truth]

The Bible: "the three are one".
GT: "the three are one AND THE SAME"

One means the same.

Now tell me where I put 'the same' in the scriptures.

Do you see now how you are dishonest about what I do?

By the way, tell me, is Jesus love?

 

[glorydaz]

A person can receive faith AFTER they obey.

Before or after but never saved without both.

A person can receive more faith after they believe (fruit of the Spirit).

The obedience of faith is man's obedience....faith in the Lord Jesus Christ' obedience unto death.