The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Right Divider]

But you can't actually show where God told him not to.

I can and have shown that there is one baptism for the body of Christ and that it does not include water.

 

[Derf]

I can and have shown that there is one baptism for the body of Christ and that it does not include water.

Maybe, but that wasn't your claim here:

Until God told Him not to.

1Cor 1:17 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect

If God told Paul not to baptize, that would have been much more efficient to have just said that outright, rather than baptizing people, telling people to be baptized, having others baptize some people, then turning a corner and never telling people that they should now NOT get baptized.

Even in that verse you quoted, Paul doesn't say Christians should not be baptized with water.

 

[Right Divider]

Maybe, but that wasn't your claim here:

If God told Paul not to baptize, that would have been much more efficient to have just said that outright, rather than baptizing people, telling people to be baptized, having others baptize some people, then turning a corner and never telling people that they should now NOT get baptized.

You do not seem to have a grasp of the Biblical progression of things either (along with Hoping).
Paul did NOT know that he was not sent to baptize until later in his ministry. God reveals things progressively. God has always don't things that way.

Even in that verse you quoted, Paul doesn't say Christians should not be baptized with water.

Paul never once commands anyone to get wet. Again, can you not understand that there is ONE baptism for the body of Christ? Here it is AGAIN:

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I understand that you still cannot understand the difference in God's programs. You're not alone. Most of Churchianity is in the same boat.

 

[Derf]

You do not seem to have a grasp of the Biblical progression of things either (along with Hoping).
Paul did NOT know that he was not sent to baptize until later in his ministry. God reveals things progressively. God as always don't things that way.

Paul never once commands anyone to get wet. Again, can you not under that there is ONE baptism for the body of Christ? Here it is AGAIN:

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I understand that you still cannot understand the difference in God's programs. You're not alone. Most of Churchianity is in the same boat.

You realize, I hope, that you have quoted the same author, in the same letter, using the same word, and saying that it refers to two different things? No water was mentioned in either verse. Below are all the verses in 1 Corinthians that use the word. In only one of them is water ("sea") mentioned, but another, your favorite 12:3, talks about "drink", which is a comparison to water. Why do you assume the first ones are talking about water and 12:3 is talking about a dry baptism?

Look, I'm not trying to suggest there is some mysterious power conveyed by water baptism, but your case that water baptism stopped in the early church with Paul is very weak. VERY weak.

1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV — Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:14 KJV — I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1 Corinthians 1:15 KJV — Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1 Corinthians 1:16 KJV — And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV — For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1 Corinthians 10:2 KJV — And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV — For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV — Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

 

[Right Divider]

You realize, I hope, that you have quoted the same author, in the same letter, using the same word, and saying that it refers to two different things? No water was mentioned in either verse. Below are all the verses in 1 Corinthians that use the word. In only one of them is water ("sea") mentioned, but another, your favorite 12:3, talks about "drink", which is a comparison to water. Why do you assume the first ones are talking about water and 12:3 is talking about a dry baptism?

Look, I'm not trying to suggest there is some mysterious power conveyed by water baptism, but your case that water baptism stopped in the early church with Paul is very weak. VERY weak.

1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV — Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:14 KJV — I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1 Corinthians 1:15 KJV — Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1 Corinthians 1:16 KJV — And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV — For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1 Corinthians 10:2 KJV — And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV — For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV — Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Are you really so poor at discerning these things?

Those that were "baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" were those that stayed DRY.

Exod 14:29 (AKJV/PCE)
(14:29) But the children of Israel walked upon dry [land] in the midst of the sea; and the waters [were] a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

Baptize/Baptism does NOT always mean water is involved. It is not a "water word". There are many baptisms in the Bible and most have nothing to do with water.

Here is a prime example of that.

Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

SIX times in TWO verses and not a drop of water anywhere.

 

[Derf]

Are you really so poor at discerning these things?

Those that were "baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea" were those that stayed DRY.

Exod 14:29 (AKJV/PCE)
(14:29) But the children of Israel walked upon dry [land] in the midst of the sea; and the waters [were] a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

Baptize/Baptism does NOT always mean water is involved. It is not a "water word". There are many baptisms in the Bible and most have nothing to do with water.

Here is a prime example of that.

Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

SIX times in TWO verses and not a drop of water anywhere.

Then you have to assume water is required for the earlier verses in 1 Cor.

Rather, "baptize" and "baptism" are water words, but they can be used metaphorically, just like Jesus used "cup" in your reference. There was no cup in what they and He would experience, but there WAS a cup with them in the room. He was using a physical object to illustrated a spiritual principle--just like like "baptism" does. And just like we experience water baptism to illustrate baptism of the spirit, so we use the cup of communion to illustrate our death in Christ leading to resurrection. Just because there's a spiritual meaning to the cup, doesn't mean we forego the physical act of communion. Neither did Paul EVER teach such a thing, either with communion or baptism.

 

[Right Divider]

Then you have to assume water is required for the earlier verses in 1 Cor.

Never assume.

Rather, "baptize" and "baptism" are water words,

No, they are NOT.

but they can be used metaphorically, just like Jesus used "cup" in your reference.

Yes, they can. But the word itself is NOT related only to water.

There was no cup in what they and He would experience, but there WAS a cup with them in the room.

What cup? What room?

He was using a physical object to illustrated a spiritual principle--just like like "baptism" does.

This is another myth of Churchianity. It sounds good, but is misleading.

And just like we experience water baptism to illustrate baptism of the spirit, so we use the cup of communion to illustrate our death in Christ leading to resurrection.

The "cup of communion" is not water... it is wine.

Just because there's a spiritual meaning to the cup, doesn't mean we forego the physical act of communion. Neither did Paul EVER teach such a thing, either with communion or baptism.

You are extremely confused.

Here is some help if you're so inclined.

https://graceambassadors.com/search?q=baptism&x=0&y=0#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=baptism&gsc.page=1

 

[Derf]

Never assume.

Yes, that was my point to you. So now you are saying that Paul was speaking of Spirit baptism in regard to the earlier portion of 1 Cor? That's odd, because I thought you used those verses to say Paul was no longer doing water baptisms.

No, they are NOT.

Yes, they can. But the word itself is NOT related only to water.

All of the Old Testament uses of the bapto word family that I saw in the septuagint were regarding liquid, and most were about water. Are we not talking about the Jews anymore for water baptism?

What cup? What room?

You're right, I was thinking of another time when they were partaking of the communion cup and arguing about who would be greatest in the kingdom.
Luke 22:20 KJV — Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:24 KJV — And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.

But my point about it being a metaphor still applied.

This is another myth of Churchianity. It sounds good, but is misleading.

Ah, good! Now that you've labeled me, you don't have to converse with me anymore.

The "cup of communion" is not water... it is wine.

It was a metaphor.

You are extremely confused.

By your own posts, no less.

Here is some help if you're so inclined.

https://graceambassadors.com/search?q=baptism&x=0&y=0#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=baptism&gsc.page=1

I've read some of their stuff. Some of its good, some not.

 

[Right Divider]

I've read some of their stuff. Some of its good, some not.

It's all good. You're wrong about "some not".

 

[Derf]

Here is some help if you're so inclined.

https://graceambassadors.com/search?q=baptism&x=0&y=0#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=baptism&gsc.page=1

Here's a place where they misuse scripture, trying to squeeze out of it something it doesn't actually say. Kind of like how you've been doing:

"Though he baptized some, he did not baptize all, because he was sent to preach the glory of the cross, and the Lord told him baptism would make the the cross of none effect.

“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” – 1 Cor 1:17

 

[Right Divider]

Here's a place where they misuse scripture, trying to squeeze out of it something it doesn't actually say. Kind of like how you've been doing:

"Though he baptized some, he did not baptize all, because he was sent to preach the glory of the cross, and the Lord told him baptism would make the the cross of none effect.

I and they are correct. It is you that is incorrect.

 

[Derf]

I and they are correct. It is you that is incorrect.

I am correct, you and they are incorrect.

 

[Hoping]

What delivers a new Christian from the "old man?" Water baptism or Holy Spirit baptism?

According to Paul in Rom 6:3-6 and Gal 3:27, 5:24, it is water baptism.
If it were otherwise, he would have said "Spirit baptism".

 

[Hoping]

Your knowledge of the sequence of events in the Bible is sorely lacking.

Indeed you are.

Indeed.

Which baptism did Paul do for the twelve at Ephesus?
It is written..."Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." (Acts 19:4-6)
That was two different baptism done for, and to, the twelve at Ephesus.

 

[Derf]

According to Paul in Rom 6:3-6 and Gal 3:27, 5:24, it is water baptism.
If it were otherwise, he would have said "Spirit baptism".

Or perhaps neither, since Peter indicates it isn't about the washing if the flesh, but the cleansing if the conscience. Something more than water is needed. What is needed is to be dead to sin, so that we don't live any longer therein. We are dead to sin only when we identify with Christ's death, and we are raised to walk, not by coming out of the water, but by recognizing our new position in Christ. Water baptism is a perfect picture of that process, and thus is good for all believers to submit to.

 

[marke]

According to Paul in Rom 6:3-6 and Gal 3:27, 5:24, it is water baptism.
If it were otherwise, he would have said "Spirit baptism".

If sinners must be baptized to be saved then why did Jess tell the thief on the cross he was going to heaven? Will there be sinners in heaven who never had their sins washed away by water?

 

[Right Divider]

Which baptism did Paul do for the twelve at Ephesus?
It is written..."Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." (Acts 19:4-6)
That was two different baptism done for, and to, the twelve at Ephesus.

Verse 5 is talking about what John did, not what Paul did.

 

[Right Divider]

Or perhaps neither, since Peter indicates it isn't about the washing if the flesh, but the cleansing if the conscience. Something more than water is needed.

No water is needed for the body of Christ... There is ONE baptism for the body of Christ and it's not water.

What is needed is to be dead to sin, so that we don't live any longer therein. We are dead to sin only when we identify with Christ's death, and we are raised to walk, not by coming out of the water, but by recognizing our new position in Christ. Water baptism is a perfect picture of that process, and thus is good for all believers to submit to.

This is one of the myths of Churchianity that leads to confusion and division.
There is ONE baptism for the body of Christ and it has nothing to do with water. Here is is again:

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Derf]

No water is needed for the body of Christ... There is ONE baptism for the body of Christ and it's not water.

There is one the myths of Churchianity that leads to confusion and division.
There is ONE baptism for the body of Christ and it has nothing to do with water. Here is is again:

1Cor 12:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That doesn't say they didn't baptize with water, and in fact reinforces the idea that the same water baptism done to Jews in Jesus' name is that which is done to Gentiles in Jesus' name. The physical illustrates the spiritual.

 

[Right Divider]

That doesn't say they didn't baptize with water,

I don't know who "they" is, but some (like the twelve) were commanded to water baptize. That has nothing to do with the body of Christ, which Christ founded by and through Paul.

and in fact reinforces the idea that the same water baptism done to Jews in Jesus' name is that which is done to Gentiles in Jesus' name.

Fake news. The body of Christ has ONE baptism and not two or more. Read the scripture.

Eph 4:5 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The physical illustrates the spiritual.

Sometime, yes. But in this case, absolutely not.