ECT The resurrection... specifically, the rapture.

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
According to Jesus it is

Argue with Him if you do not like what His Word says

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


"Passed from death unto life"............LOL, how much more of a resurrection from death unto life do you need than the words of Jesus?

You guys are pathetic :comeout:

Passing from death to life spiritually is not a resurrection, it is being reconciled to God through Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit.

It certainly is not a resurrection from the dead.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Those resurrected n the first resurrection of Rev.ch 20 have previously been beheaded for the word of God before being resurrected.

LA
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
Passing from death to life spiritually is not a resurrection, it is being reconciled to God through Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit.

It certainly is not a resurrection from the dead.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Those resurrected n the first resurrection of Rev.ch 20 have previously been beheaded for the word of God before being resurrected.

LA

Follow the word "beheaded" in the Greek and you run upon, amongst others, the term "truncated". Study Hebraisms and you run into the term "cut off", meaning to be killed. I would suggest that such an interpretation is in harmony with the rest of the scriptures concerning the fate of those who take part in the first resurrection.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Follow the word "beheaded" in the Greek and you run upon, amongst others, the term "truncated". Study Hebraisms and you run into the term "cut off", meaning to be killed. I would suggest that such an interpretation is in harmony with the rest of the scriptures concerning the fate of those who take part in the first resurrection.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Those beheaded are resurrected AFTER their witness so that they live and reign with Christ AFTER their resurrection.

Judgment is given the saints AFTER the resurrection.

LA
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Those beheaded are resurrected AFTER their witness so that they live and reign with Christ AFTER their resurrection.

Judgment is given the saints AFTER the resurrection.

LA

Okay, fine ... but you missed my point.
 

Livelystone

New member
Passing from death to life spiritually is not a resurrection, it is being reconciled to God through Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit.

Baloney !

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

LA, unregenerated persons are the walking dead, they are "in Adam" and therefore already condemned to death. Without them joining the Body of Christ who is the resurrection they will remain dead until the time of their resurrection unto judgment for the things done or not done while they walked on earth

Without Christ no one is resurrected until they are resurrected to judgment that comes at the end of everyones physical life just like the man who wanted to build bigger barns but died and was judged the same night that he died.

Luke 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment



Those resurrected n the first resurrection of Rev.ch 20 have previously been beheaded for the word of God before being resurrected.

LA


Those who have been beheaded for the testimony of Christ have successfully killed the mind of their "old man" and gained the mind of Christ.

The Book of Revelation means The Book of the unveiling (uncovering) of Christ.

On the other hand you do have a lot of company of others who believe the same as you because they too have been taught the same nonsense. This is why none of these churches teaching that garbage have any witnessed miracles to speak of.
 

Sheila B

Member
Is the first resurrection the resurrection of the righteous? A second resurrection is not mentioned, but because there is a first there is more than one.

hmmmmmm I wonder. Having a "first born son" does not automatically indicate there is another, does it?
 

Sheila B

Member
1 Thessalonians 4:17 NASB - Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Supposedly most scholars agree that 1 Thess was the earliest letter written that later became "scripture". It is clear at that time (40's AD?) that Paul thought he might be alive when Christ returned.

Later on, he writes with assurance of his approaching death (60's AD?).
 

Sheila B

Member
No sir, you are incorrect. I believe it is highly likely or true that the passage I quoted needs to go with this verse (it comes before it, but I remembered it now (part of it) by memory) now as you change to stand against the truth.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 NASB - For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

This might be a negation of the early rapture of Christians. We who are alive and remain...
 

Sheila B

Member
There most certainly will be a catching up!

1 Thessalonians 4:161-18 KJV

This refers to the "dead in Christ", those who have fallen asleep hoping in Christ (Messiah), after His resurrection.

They are the "first" to be caught up/ raptured/ resurrected.

No time frame is mentioned about between those that sleep and those who remain. Both would be at the end of time, I am thinking, since NO other scriptures Old or New allude to the earth being without Christians, does it?
 

Sheila B

Member
However, going from the larger room of imperfection into the smaller Holiest of the Holies representing the perfection of God where no sin exists (and where God appeared unto Moses within the clouds of smoke coming from the incense that represents the prayers of the saints) after the purifying fire has done its job, is the lifting up spiritually of those who qualify to be moved forward by God into the realm of perfection .
Very interesting! This goes along with my thoughts on the significance of the Heavenly Temple where Christ is the active High Priest interceding for all. Heb 12:22-24
One of the required truths to be known is the truth of our resurrection that the rapture theory is a total contradiction of. Those who believe in it are still living in sin because of the sin of false doctrines abiding in their unclean temples (hearts and minds)

Without a visible Authority, who gets to decide who is right besides you yourself?
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Sorry, I just reread what you posted and realized my post was erroneous. In the words of Emily Litella .... never mind.

Revelation twenty is one of the few passages that doesn't have a direct parallel in the O.T. and it is very clear in it who is resurrected when.
The first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous. No wicked are resurrected then. Are any wicked resurrected ever? I believe the Bible says yes.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
The first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous. No wicked are resurrected then. Are any wicked resurrected ever? I believe the Bible says yes.


Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up , and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled : and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Strong's Number G3990 matches the Greek πελεκίζω (pelekizō),
which occurs 1 times in 1 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

A note on ‘beheaded’ in Revelation 20:4

In Revelation 20:4 John says “and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God…” The word translated “beheaded” is πεπελεκισμένων, pepelekismenōn which is derived from pelekizó, Strong’s 3990:

pelekizó: to cut off with an ax, esp. to behead

Original Word: πελεκίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pelekizó
Phonetic Spelling: (pel-ek-id’-zo)
Short Definition: I behead
Definition: I behead (with an axe).

Albert Barnes wrote:— [1]

That were beheaded – The word used here – πελεκίζω pelekizō – occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It properly means, “to axe,” that is, to hew or cut with an axe – from πέλεκυς pelekus, “axe.” Hence it means to behead with an axe. This was a common mode of execution among the Romans, and doubtless many of the Christian martyrs suffered in this manner; but “it cannot be supposed to have been the intention of the writer to confine the rewards of martyrs to those who suffered in this particular way; for this specific and ignominious method of punishment is designated merely as the symbol of any and every kind of martyrdom” (Prof. Stuart).

A few translations give another word instead of “beheaded.” J. B. Phillips rendered it: “Then I saw the souls of those who had been executed for their witness to Jesus and for proclaiming the Word of God.”


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held : 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying , How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled

Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.



Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe ? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect ? 4 God forbid : yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written , That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged . 5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say ? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid : for then how shall God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported , and as some affirm that we say ,) Let us do evil, that good may come ? whose damnation is just. 9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written , There is none righteous, no, not one:




Though the Bible is very clear on this subject few there be that hear it. Only those that paid the ultimate price of death for their faith rule and reign with Christ during His millennial reign. Not the "righteous". There is no such thing prior to those to whom it is given to receive the gift of righteousness at their resurrection.




Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered , that the offence might abound . But where sin abounded , grace did much more abound : 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith

Rev 19: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice , and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come , and his wife hath made herself ready . 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write , Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. 11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth ; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up , and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled : and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Strong's Number G3990 matches the Greek πελεκίζω (pelekizō),
which occurs 1 times in 1 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

A note on ‘beheaded’ in Revelation 20:4

In Revelation 20:4 John says “and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God…” The word translated “beheaded” is πεπελεκισμένων, pepelekismenōn which is derived from pelekizó, Strong’s 3990:

pelekizó: to cut off with an ax, esp. to behead

Original Word: πελεκίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pelekizó
Phonetic Spelling: (pel-ek-id’-zo)
Short Definition: I behead
Definition: I behead (with an axe).

Albert Barnes wrote:— [1]

That were beheaded – The word used here – πελεκίζω pelekizō – occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It properly means, “to axe,” that is, to hew or cut with an axe – from πέλεκυς pelekus, “axe.” Hence it means to behead with an axe. This was a common mode of execution among the Romans, and doubtless many of the Christian martyrs suffered in this manner; but “it cannot be supposed to have been the intention of the writer to confine the rewards of martyrs to those who suffered in this particular way; for this specific and ignominious method of punishment is designated merely as the symbol of any and every kind of martyrdom” (Prof. Stuart).

A few translations give another word instead of “beheaded.” J. B. Phillips rendered it: “Then I saw the souls of those who had been executed for their witness to Jesus and for proclaiming the Word of God.”


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held : 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying , How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled

Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.



Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe ? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect ? 4 God forbid : yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written , That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged . 5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say ? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid : for then how shall God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported , and as some affirm that we say ,) Let us do evil, that good may come ? whose damnation is just. 9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written , There is none righteous, no, not one:




Though the Bible is very clear on this subject few there be that hear it. Only those that paid the ultimate price of death for their faith rule and reign with Christ during His millennial reign. Not the "righteous". There is no such thing prior to those to whom it is given to receive the gift of righteousness at their resurrection.




Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered , that the offence might abound . But where sin abounded , grace did much more abound : 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith

Rev 19: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice , and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come , and his wife hath made herself ready . 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write , Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. 11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth ; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
All of God's word is important.

I was posting about the resurrection or the first resurrection.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Baloney !

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Jesus is saying that if one believes in Christ and dies, he will live again in the resurrection.




LA, unregenerated persons are the walking dead, they are "in Adam" and therefore already condemned to death. Without them joining the Body of Christ who is the resurrection they will remain dead until the time of their resurrection unto judgment for the things done or not done while they walked on earth

Without Christ no one is resurrected until they are resurrected to judgment that comes at the end of everyones physical life just like the man who wanted to build bigger barns but died and was judged the same night that he died.

Luke 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Yes once to die, not twice.

The resurrection is talking about the same resurrection that Christ went though in that of bodily being raised from the dead.





Those who have been beheaded for the testimony of Christ have successfully killed the mind of their "old man" and gained the mind of Christ.

These of the first resurrection in Rev.ch 20 are killed for the word of God and then resurrected to sit on thrones.



The Book of Revelation means The Book of the unveiling (uncovering) of Christ.

On the other hand you do have a lot of company of others who believe the same as you because they too have been taught the same nonsense. This is why none of these churches teaching that garbage have any witnessed miracles to speak of.

People like you who claim their doctrine is right by using the evidence of miracles are mentioned here--

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

LA
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
All of God's word is important.

I was posting about the resurrection or the first resurrection.

You took 5 minutes to respond to a lengthy post. It has been my experience that you usually consider matters a little longer than that before responding. What's the hurry?
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Though the Bible is very clear on this subject few there be that hear it. Only those that paid the ultimate price of death for their faith rule and reign with Christ during His millennial reign. Not the "righteous". There is no such thing prior to those to whom it is given to receive the gift of righteousness at their resurrection.




Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith

.

Good point worth consideration.

Thanks.

LA
 
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