ECT The resurrection... specifically, the rapture.

[Livelystone]

Hi Livelystone,

I just now read your post, after replying to LA. Your post is quite knowledgeable, and this kind of knowledge I believe only comes about from the experiencing thereof.

About what is quoted above, I thought I'd tell you one of my beliefs.

I believe that it won't matter so much what we know or believe, but instead it will matter how well we have loved one another.

God Bless you.

Hi Levlor,

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement

I agree on the love and as Paul says we can have all the knowledge in the world but if we are without love we have nothing

Without getting to mushy I will just say I would not put myself through the abuse I do from the saints as well as attacks from the enemy just about everywhere I go all because of what God has shown me of what is yet to be. It is my desire for as many as possible to participate in the manifestation of sons that requires God moving us from our current state of imperfection into the perfection of His Dear Son that often causes me to break into tears while praying for the church at large.

As I see it the problem about not getting this part of Thessolians, and the rest of the resurrection right, causes one to not have belief in the truth of our inheritance that is the same sin that kept the Jews from obtaining their inheritance when they should have at Tabernacles. For this reason we have been warned not to fall into the same trap

Thank you again for all of your kind words, and most importantly the reminder I keep in mind who those I am speaking to belong to all because He was willing to die for them. I appreciate you bringing this back into focus for me.

The truth probably is I will still share the above again, and if necessary share it yet again

Blessings, and much love in Christ Jesus

Doug

 

[Levolor]

Dear Livelystone,

Tonight's first two posts of mine was the first time I even came into this thread. Odd how things work out, isn't it. I will probably read the rest of the thread at another time.

I will probably have more to say on your post just made to me too. For now, I wish to say that those who are meant to get it will, and those who are not 'yet' ready won't. We sow, water and nourish, but it is God who gives the increase.

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 1 Corinthians 3:6, 7

Being attached to the outcome... well, is... the ego at work. Forgive me for being so direct.

Goodnight my friend. Lord willing we shall talk soon and share our experiences and what has been revealed to each other.

Thank you for your prayers for the saints.

With the love of Christ,
Levolor

Hi Levlor,

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement

I agree on the love and as Paul says we can have all the knowledge in the world but if we are without love we have nothing

Without getting to mushy I will just say I would not put myself through the abuse I do from the saints as well as attacks from the enemy just about everywhere I go all because of what God has shown me of what is yet to be. It is my desire for as many as possible to participate in the manifestation of sons that requires God moving us from our current state of imperfection into the perfection of His Dear Son that often causes me to break into tears while praying for the church at large.

As I see it the problem about not getting this part of Thessolians, and the rest of the resurrection right, causes one to not have belief in the truth of our inheritance that is the same sin that kept the Jews from obtaining their inheritance when they should have at Tabernacles. For this reason we have been warned not to fall into the same trap

Thank you again for all of your kind words, and most importantly the reminder I keep in mind who those I am speaking to belong to all because He was willing to die for them. I appreciate you bringing this back into focus for me.

The truth probably is I will still share the above again, and if necessary share it yet again

Blessings, and much love in Christ Jesus

Doug

 

[OCTOBER23]

Is the resurrection the same as the rapture?

RAPTURE HAPPENS JUST BEFORE THE MID-TRIB FOR THE PHILADELPHIA CHURCH

AND JUST AFTER FOR THE LAODICEAN CHURCH.

Revelation 3:7 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
------------------------------------------------
John 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the UNOCCUPIED PLACE PREPARED BY GOD/JESUS, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
--------------------------------------------------------
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
-----------------------------------------------------------

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I am tired of proving through the law that determines the truth that you are wrong

This is the last time I will present it lawfully to you........ if you do not want to accept what God says, fine, go ahead and die in your sins because your blood will not be upon me

Your threats are hollow.

Prefacing your comments with such dire warnings if I do not believe you is the way of the world, the flesh and the devil

Here are those who are dead in Christ who are still perfectly alive

Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

If you would follow the laws for determining the truth you would not make the mistake of denying what has been lawfully presented to you....... Instead you error because of the traditions of man you are yielding to that make the word of God to be of no effect.

What a spiritualist you are.

The entire purpose of being baptized is being baptized into his death so we may through the power of God be risen with Him who is the resurrection

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

For those who already have died physically when the spirit goes back to God to be judged for better or worse

2Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Your insistence to follow the traditions of what others have taught you while refusing to adhere to the Word of God being lawfully presented to you shows both your rebellion to God and your total lack of understanding

You are prepared to lie about other people so you think it will make you look right.

how we are to acquire sonship through the resurrection of Christ in us who is the resurrection, and is the hope of our glory.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:


Here is a quote from my book

"As if knowledge about the things of God were not already difficult, we must also understand that when the Bible refers to being dead, it can mean either being physically dead or being spiritually dead while still being physically alive. In Romans, Paul speaks of Christians being alive unto God because they are dead to sin, but in Colossians, Paul speaks of being dead in Christ while not living by the standards of the world that is physically alive around him, yet condemned to death. The bottom line is that we are spiritually born into the valley of death, and this life is the first death while the life that follows this one is the second death, and is where all sin and evil in mankind is eventually destroyed".

Get it right now or die still being wrong.................. the choice is yours

Your doctrine is of the spiritualists who claim Christ did not really die, but only his outer body did.

You claim that because a spirit saw you when you claim to have been dead , and convinced you that it was really you looking at your body.

The witchdoctors did that for centuries.

You can take all of your threats somewhere else. If you were so mature in Christ then you would not use such infantile tactics to try and persuade others you speak the truth.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Hello LA,

I know you provided scripture showing that those dead in Christ are dead in the grave.

There are also scriptures showing being crucified into Christ... having experienced His death... not so much the death of crucifixion, but of self... the death that Jesus experienced in the Garden. The death of 'my will' and the birth of 'thy will be done', which is being crucified into Christ.

'It is not I who lives, but Christ in me who lives' is another way of saying being dead in Christ even though it is I who am also alive in Christ. The life He lives I now live, but who I was is now dead.

Scriptures available upon request, though, I believe you recognize the ones I have referred to.

God Bless you.

Such a death to life is never referred to as a resurrection in the Bible.

LA

 

[Word based mystic]

Do an intense study on (the day of the Lord). In the old testament the day of the Lord was usually described as impacting the present time and situation of Israel but also Showed a more comprehensive day of the Lord For the final Coming of the Lord.

In these as well as new testament Day of the lord scriptures It is obvious that Jesus comes to destroy His enemies as well as comes to meet his bride in the air. Descriptions of the day of the lord also relates that the anti-christ (son of perdition) will already be revealed. The Lord will wage war upon His enemies on that day and bring His heavenly Host with Him as well as inhabit the earth with His bride.
There is not a 3rd or 4th coming of the Lord. Only a 2nd coming and on that day A lot happens.
Rapturing the bride because The true mature christians could not overcome The devil and his cohort is not part of that process.

He comes to a mature bride that has learned how to overcome the enemy Through the blood, our testimony, and loving our lives even unto death.

We are overcomers, conquerors with Christ mature christians at that point. Partly due to the attempt of the enemy to destroy the church and the tribulation that produced silver and gold.

 

[chrysostom]

It is obvious that Jesus comes to destroy His enemies as well as comes to meet his bride in the air. .

not so obvious to me

Jesus came to redeem us and set up His church, His bride, to guide us until His return

 

[Word based mystic]

I was referring to the Day of the Lord. When he comes to destroy his enemies. all my points are discussing the day of the Lord and how rapture is not part of it. There is no 3rd and 4th coming. Rapture supporters would have to disagree with the summary of the day of the lord and His second coming. It does not include a rapture where he comes a third time later.

Chrysostom I am agreeing with you. I think I might not have explained fully that I was talking about the day of the Lord. That was my whole context. The day of the Lord and the activity describe within that day.

 

[chrysostom]

I was referring to the Day of the Lord. When he comes to destroy his enemies. all my points are discussing the day of the Lord and how rapture is not part of it. There is no 3rd and 4th coming. Rapture supporters would have to disagree with the summary of the day of the lord and His second coming. It does not include a rapture where he comes a third time later.

Chrysostom I am agreeing with you. I think I might not have explained fully that I was talking about the day of the Lord. That was my whole context. The day of the Lord and the activity describe within that day.

I should have realized that
but
I didn't

thank you

 

[oatmeal]

Assuming that the term "rapture" is referring to what II Thessalonians 2:1 calls the gathering together which is referring to the events described in I Thessalonians 4:13-18, then no.

The rapture is not a resurrection.

People do rise from the dead in the gathering together, not all people involved in the gathering together are dead.

The rising of the dead in I Thessalonians 4 is technically an outresurrection. Philippians 3:11 refers to the exanastasis, a standing up out of, as opposed to anastasis, resurrection, a standing or rising up.

Philippians 3:11 refers to the gathering together of II Thessalonians 2:1.

The resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust are described in the book of Revelation and other places. the wrath occurs in the book of Revelation events

We are saved from the wrath to come, Romans 5:9 and I Thessalonians 1:10

How? by being gathered together with him and so ever being with the lord before the wrath

 

[Levolor]

Such a death to life is never referred to as a resurrection in the Bible.

LA

Dear LA,

Maybe you and Livelystone discussed resurrection, but I had only read your and Livestone's post when I first entered this thread and made the post you are replying to.

Nevertheless even though I never used the word resurrection, I am very pleased that you did. Especially for the first verse shown in Revelation below.

But first, while reading the first two verses recall that Jesus said: Let the dead bury the dead.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Romans 6:13

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Ephesians 5:14

And of course light can mean life, and I believe that it does in this verse. God is love, light, and life.

There are many verses speaking of from death to life. We all are dead until made alive by God... being made a part of Christ's body.

However, this being made alive (given the Holy Spirit) is not yet having had a resurrection. We are just given the power to become sons of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12



He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation 2:11

What is the overcoming? I believe that it is the being crucified into Christ. Wherein Christ now lives in me/you/us; not just me/you/us in Him.

I also believe that this crucifixion goes beyond the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but is the baptism by fire that Christ endured through His obedience of death on the cross. (Mark 10:38, 39)

What is the second death, but:

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

Thank you, Lord, for having shown the way from death to life, and resurrected living.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Dear LA,

Maybe you and Livelystone discussed resurrection, but I had only read your and Livestone's post when I first entered this thread and made the post you are replying to.

Nevertheless even though I never used the word resurrection, I am very pleased that you did. Especially for the first verse shown in Revelation below.

But first, while reading the first two verses recall that Jesus said: Let the dead bury the dead.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Romans 6:13

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Ephesians 5:14

And of course light can mean life, and I believe that it does in this verse. God is love, light, and life.

There are many verses speaking of from death to life. We all are dead until made alive by God... being made a part of Christ's body.

However, this being made alive (given the Holy Spirit) is not yet having had a resurrection. We are just given the power to become sons of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12



He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation 2:11

What is the overcoming? I believe that it is the being crucified into Christ. Wherein Christ now lives in me/you/us; not just me/you/us in Him.

I also believe that this crucifixion goes beyond the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but is the baptism by fire that Christ endured through His obedience of death on the cross. (Mark 10:38, 39)

What is the second death, but:

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

Thank you, Lord, for having shown the way from death to life, and resurrected living.

Yes we receive resurrected life, but we are not yet resurrected.

Check out that David killed Goliath twice.

Yes it is said that way for a reason (which you appear to know) and I checked the wording.

LA

 

[Livelystone]

You are prepared to lie about other people so you think it will make you look right. LA

Here you are in your own words playing the devils advocate

Your doctrine is of the spiritualists who claim Christ did not really die, but only his outer body did.LA

Christ dies the same way everyone else does.......... the spirit and soul go to God and the body goes to the grave, I have given you plenty of verses that witness this as God's truth suitable for the edification of the Church. Unfortunately you prefer your own twisted ideas over God's Word


Problem with you is you are nothing more than a lot of bull and false doctrines that do not even resemble the truth.

Meanwhile, no one here comes even close to you when it comes to speaking as poorly and as often of other Christians as you do

You talk about signs following but you have none other than your own unintelligible gibberish that if it is anything like the doctrines you come up with, is certainly not coming from the Holy Spirit

People who pray in real tongues do so because they have not yet learned the truth Should you ever learn the truth your tongue talking will cease and you will finally be able to pray according to the will of God following when for the first time in your life you acquire the truth

 

[Sheila B]

In addition, through the design of the pattern given to Moses who was told to build the OT tabernacle, and everything inside exactly as God told him to build it, we can learn that


the soul is a body for the spirit.

This last phrase is very interesting. Something about it rings true, but I am not sure if I am thinking what you intend. Could you elaborate on how

the soul is a body for the spirit?

How did the OT tabernacle teach you this?

 

[Livelystone]

This original post has been quoted by Sheila in her following post, and is now saved as a blog under my username. It is titled as "Pattern on the Mount"

 

[Sheila B]

Good morning Sheila,

It is not possible for me to within a post adequately address your question in the manner it deserves to be. Best I can do here is attempt a broad brush stroke summary

The OT tabernacle starting with the dimensions (square footage) of the outside curtain represents the authority and time of the law, Continuing on from the outer court and into the Holiest of the Holies represents the time and spiritual progress of man's walk with God since the time of the law was first given......... The design of the OT Tabernacle was given to Moses as a "pattern" for him to follow and make it exactly as it was given because it was a pattern reflecting God's plan and timeline of His called out ones.

The Holiest of the Holies (smaller room) represents the presence of where the Spirit of God would appear (and the Ark was a prophecy of Jesus) is where no sin can exist without a penalty of death. Meanwhile, the "Holies" represents the soul of a man (or woman) who has been given the Holy Spirit but is still under the imperfect authority of Pentecost seen in the daily "trimming" of the lamps that is the pulling up of the wick that burns and replacing the oil (anointing).

The two rooms were separated by a veil and over the top of them both together were the skins of animals that made up the tabernacle's top........... animal skins (tabernacle) were also used for the covering God made for Adam and Eve who too represent the spirit and soul but they are strictly representing the spirit and soul of man, and not God who is also Spirit with a Soul.

Technically speaking "Adam in us" dies at the cross, but because Eve is still left in us, and because "the two had become one flesh" most often she continues to rule over the person through their mind, will, and emotions. As a soul she still carries the seed of the serpent the same as Adam did making them both unclean. How this plays out is seen in the parable of the unclean spirit in Matt 12 and Luke 11

We are baptized into His death so we may be resurrected with His Spirit (the source of our resurrection in Him) and into the resurrection with Him while we are still living in this life. However, the unfortunate truth is because Christians have not been taught the truth, for the most part the church has resurrected Adam (spirit of man) back to life instead of living through the seed that is Christ resurrected in us.

Simply put the soul is female and the spirit is male. However the Holy Spirit cannot marry AKA become one (legally) with the soul of man and instead can only become one with the soul of God. Therefore if the Holy Spirit of God can it will marry the soul (mind) of God and as the two become one flesh bring forth a Holy Life that is a male child caught up to heaven and is the fulness of God's plan of redemption for us

The spirit of man can never bring forth the mind of Christ that is found only in the soul of God....... consequently, only the Holy Spirit can do this! Therefore, we see the soul of God (tabernacle of God) who is the wife to be wedded to the Holy Spirit already on earth within the wise virgins who are now coming forth, coming down from heaven in Re.21:2-3 to become the tabernacle of God on earth.

Blessings to you and to yours

Doug

Awesome! I have much to add to this brief summary also, but cannot quite see how it would tie into the rapture of the OP, and I see that we could derail this thread very quickly!

If you would like to start a new thread on this topic, I will definitely chime in!

 

[Cross Reference]

The Apocalypse

Rev 20:6 Lecture 46. by J.A Seiss

(Revelation 20:6)
". . . in connection with the gathering of the kings and their armies at Harmageddon, there is a note of indication that other saints were then on the eve of being taken (chap. 16:15); whilst here in the vision of the whole body finally made up, some are described as having lived in the very last days of the Antichrist, yet did not worship him or receive his mark; indicating that the first resurrection is not finally complete until the very last period of the Man of sin."

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Here you are in your own words playing the devils advocate







Christ dies the same way everyone else does.......... the spirit and soul go to God and the body goes to the grave, I have given you plenty of verses that witness this as God's truth suitable for the edification of the Church. Unfortunately you prefer your own twisted ideas over God's Word


Problem with you is you are nothing more than a lot of bull and false doctrines that do not even resemble the truth.

Meanwhile, no one here comes even close to you when it comes to speaking as poorly and as often of other Christians as you do

You talk about signs following but you have none other than your own unintelligible gibberish that if it is anything like the doctrines you come up with, is certainly not coming from the Holy Spirit

People who pray in real tongues do so because they have not yet learned the truth Should you ever learn the truth your tongue talking will cease and you will finally be able to pray according to the will of God following when for the first time in your life you acquire the truth

You speak that way because you are satanic in origin.

Anyone who reads your testimony and who knows the Lord can only come to that conclusion.

If you are so mighty in the scriptures and have all the miracles in your church that you claim then you would have too much on your plate to post messages on this board.

The fact is that you are alone in your misery of holding grudges.

LA

 

[Livelystone]

You speak that way because you are satanic in origin.

Anyone who reads your testimony and who knows the Lord can only come to that conclusion.

If you are so mighty in the scriptures and have all the miracles in your church that you claim then you would have too much on your plate to post messages on this board.

The fact is that you are alone in your misery of holding grudges.

LA

Listen to how ugly and vile you have become !!!

Truly you have become an ally of the asscuser of the brethern

The enemy of God's children has succeeded in accomplishing a foul work in you.

BTW you are also a liar having never once ever heard me refer to any church as mine......... but MOST everyone here already knows this about you.

Doug

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Listen to how ugly and vile you have become !!!

Truly you have become an ally of the asscuser of the brethern

The enemy of God's children has succeeded in accomplishing a foul work in you.

BTW you are also a liar having never once ever heard me refer to any church as mine......... but MOST everyone here already knows this about you.

Doug

I only spoke back to you in kind as you spoke.

You are a hypocrite as well as a spiritualist who claims miracles as the authentication of your false doctrines.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You claim the right to condemn all who do not believe you as if you are some kind of special person.

You actually are full of yourself and the spirit which told you that when you die you go to heaven to be with the Lord before the resurrection of the dead occurs.

All satanic lies from the wanna be false prophet deadstone.

How do you like it hey!

LA