ECT The resurrection... specifically, the rapture.

[Livelystone]

Livelystone,

The question is if resurrection is for those as they are born again (not Biblical) or those who have died and then come back to life or enter into eternal life... whether on this earth, a new heaven and a new earth, or in heaven.

The Bible does not identify the first resurrection with physically dying but instead with believing and obeying the truth (to hear in the original means to not just hear but to hear and obey)

This is what causes the resurrection as they pass from death unto life

Here is the verse again and is spoken by Jesus from when a person passes from death unto life because they (their spirit and soul) will never die

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

 

[Jacob]

The Bible does not identify the first resurrection with physically dying but instead of believing and obeying the truth (to hear in the original means to not just hear but to hear and obey)

This is what causes the resurrection as they pass from death unto life

Here is the verse again and is spoken by Jesus from when a person passes from death unto life because they (their spirit and soul) will never die

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

Just because something is popular doesn't make it true. You need to read the Bible again. The reason I say your view is not Biblical is because I don't see anywhere in the Bible that supports it.

 

[Jacob]

1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB - For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 NASB - Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[Livelystone]

Just because something is popular doesn't make it true. You need to read the Bible again. The reason I say your view is not Biblical is because I don't see anywhere in the Bible that supports it.

What is wrong with what Jesus says in Jn 5:24 KJV when Jesus says is when they pass from death unto life.......... don't like what Jesus says or do you not think Jesus means what He said?

In this case they have been born again with a new spirit that is not condemned unto death as the spirit of man (Adam) is and has been ever since the fall in the garden

 

[Jacob]

What is wrong with what Jesus says in Jn 5:24 KJV when Jesus says is when they pass from death unto life.......... don't like what Jesus says or do you not think Jesus means what He said?

In this case they have been born again with a new spirit that is not condemned unto death as the spirit of man (Adam) is and has been ever since the fall in the garden

A person can be born again in this life, but not resurrected until after he or she dies (physical death). Do you remember Jesus resurrected from the dead, never to die again? Why would you say resurrection is different from what the Bible reveals?

 

[fzappa13]

Is the first resurrection the resurrection of the righteous? A second resurrection is not mentioned, but because there is a first there is more than one.

The Bible is very clear who is a part of each resurrection but it has been my experience that most tend not to believe it because that they have embraced some doctrine that precludes it.

 

[Livelystone]

1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB - For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 NASB - Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Take a look at the meaning as defined in a good lexicon of the orignal word translated as "Then" in the begining of the 17th verse and you will find out that it means as a result of the aforementioned fact those who are alive and remain will be with the Lord because they are the "dead in Christ".

Here is some more proof of persons said to be dead in Christ being perfectly alive and still remaining on earth

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinance

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.



It is time for you to start learning the truth of the resurrection (s)

 

[Jacob]

The Bible is very clear who is a part of each resurrection but it has been my experience that most tend not to believe it because that they have embraced some doctrine that precludes it.

The Bible mentions a first resurrection. There is resurrection more than the first resurrection. Is this speaking of the resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked or something else?

 

[Jacob]

Take a look at the meaning as defined in a good lexicon of the orignal word translated as "Then" in the begining of the 17th verse and you will find out that it means as a result of the aforementioned fact those who are alive and remain will be with the Lord because they are the "dead in Christ".

Here is some more proof of persons said to be dead in Christ being perfectly alive and still remaining on earth

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinance

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.



It is time for you to start learning the truth of the resurrection (s)

No sir, you are incorrect. I believe it is highly likely or true that the passage I quoted needs to go with this verse (it comes before it, but I remembered it now (part of it) by memory) now as you change to stand against the truth.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 NASB - For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

 

[Livelystone]

The Bible is very clear who is a part of each resurrection but it has been my experience that most tend not to believe it because that they have embraced some doctrine that precludes it.

Everybody who has ever died since the time of Christ has been immediately resurrected unto judgment for better or for worse. This is the second resurrection and there are both believers and non believers in this resurrection

The first resurrection consist only those who are worshipping in truth and in obedience that started when that begin to happen.

The second resurrection is said to be a thousand years later than the first resurrection only because a 1000 years is a day, and a day with the Lord is a thousand years.

2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

As long as a person is still alive it remains the day of salvation for them, and has been the day of salvation for all persons every day since the life ,death and resurrection of Jesus nearly 2000 years ago. However once a person dies it is no longer a day of salvation for them because it has now become a day of judgment for them which is a "different day" from the day of salvation, because in the dispensation of God a day is the same as 1000 years

"But, it has been my experience that most tend not to believe it because that they have embraced some doctrine that precludes it".

 

[Livelystone]

No sir, you are incorrect. I believe it is highly likely or true that the passage I quoted needs to go with this verse (it comes before it, but I remembered it now (part of it) by memory) now as you change to stand against the truth.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 NASB - For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

No sir, you are VERY wrong and the reason why is those who have fallen asleep have ALREADY been with the Lord since that time (providing they were "in Christ before dying)

I have watched you be wrong for years now and it is high time you changed your way of thinking

 

[Jacob]

No sir, you are VERY wrong and the reason why is those who have fallen asleep have ALREADY been with the Lord since that time (providing they were "in Christ before dying)

I have watched you be wrong for years now and it is high time you changed your way of thinking

resurrected is different from born again.

 

[fzappa13]

The Bible mentions a first resurrection. There is resurrection more than the first resurrection. Is this speaking of the resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked or something else?

Sorry, I just reread what you posted and realized my post was erroneous. In the words of Emily Litella .... never mind.

Revelation twenty is one of the few passages that doesn't have a direct parallel in the O.T. and it is very clear in it who is resurrected when.

 

[fzappa13]

resurrected is different from born again.

I would suggest that modern Christianity has taken the passages that concern these two phrases and put them in a blender leaving them indistinguishable to denominational adherents.

 

[fzappa13]

For Ms. Sheila

Isa 62: 1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace , and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest , until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth . 2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name , which the mouth of the LORD shall name. 3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. 4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken ; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah : for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married . 5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. 6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence, 7 And give him no rest, till he establish , and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Once again we see here that marriage spoken of so often in the Bible. Once again we see the Lord embracing those whom He had scattered and returning them to their promised land calling them “Hephzibah” (my delight) and Jerusalem “Beulah” (married). We see also the Gentiles as witnesses. There are those that would suggest that Jew and Gentile have different addresses as it concerns their long home but this and other such passages would seem to argue otherwise. Another piece to the puzzle, as it were.

 

[Livelystone]

resurrected is different from born again.

What should be clear to you, that unfortunately still remains a mystery to you, and your friend of Emily Litella, is neither of you can figure out on your own what the truth about either of the two resurrections is :duh:

Otherwise, this and a few other doctrinal truths being acquired by you would allow you to witness the miracles you should be seeing following your ministries!!!

What the two of you don't seem to realize about Re.20 is the only resurrection it is clear about when who is being resurrected when, is the first resurrection when ONLY the believers who worship in truth and obedience to God are resurrected !!!

But, and FYI concerning the both of you regarding the differences between the two resurrections, there are direct parallels with Re.20 existing in the NT that the two of you need to wake up to, and do so before it becomes to late for either of you to gain the benefits from learning the truth!!!

2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

1 Corinthians 2:7 but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

You guys (including CR) have scripturally been proven wrong more times than can be easily counted (without tallying up the multiple times over many posts and pages) during the time span of this thread

Why you guys continue to hang unto the traditions of man (the modern day church) is only because your arrogance is exceeding your ignorance.

However, on the plus side there is power that will come forth from repentance from dead works, and prayer from all of you for what is good that can only be received through grace and mercy from above.

You do not have to wake up tomorrow still walking around in La La Land concerning the doctrine of the resurrection that is required knowledge for us to know.

Doug

 

[Lazy afternoon]

resurrected is different from born again.

I agree.

The Bible proves it.

The two resurrections in Rev.20 are the same kind (raised bodily from the dead)

Receiving the Holy spirit is not a resurrection.

LA

 

[fzappa13]

I agree.

The Bible proves it.

The two resurrections in Rev.20 are the same kind (raised bodily from the dead)

Receiving the Holy spirit is not a resurrection.

LA

Well, it is a resurrection of sorts and there are verses to support that. The problem is there are those who take such verses to mean that they have been literally, physically resurrected after claiming the name of Christ and there's the rub.

 

[dreadknought]

Is the resurrection the same as the rapture?

There is also mention of a first resurrection.

There is a resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked.

Is there a later resurrection.

Specifically, in looking at the rapture, my question is:

Do the dead in Christ rise immediately prior to those alive in Christ meaning Him in the air?

Some believe when they die if they are a Christian they go straight to heaven. Is there any scriptural support for this?

Has Christ already or will Christ ever reign upon the earth?

Will believers or believing Jews reign with Him, or is our reign only likened unto Christ's in heaven which we know of already (perhaps this is already the case since He was seated or in fact is seated or at the right hand of God in heaven)?

I don't recall "rapture" being used in the Scriptures. Must be a theological term you expect "all"
to know about.

 

[Livelystone]

I agree.

Receiving the Holy spirit is not a resurrection.

LA

According to Jesus it is

Argue with Him if you do not like what His Word says

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


"Passed from death unto life"............LOL, how much more of a resurrection from death unto life do you need than the words of Jesus?

You guys are pathetic :comeout: