iouae
Well-known member
I am not.
I very particularly did not say night club so as not to offend folks like you.
But like I believe, offence is something taken, not something given.
The Jesus Club
- Thread starter iouae
- Start date
I am not.
I very particularly did not say night club so as not to offend folks like you.
But like I believe, offence is something taken, not something given.
God's Truth
New member
I don't agree with your reasoning.
In post #34 I was still speaking on Paul as a member of the Way known as a sect in the Acts
But still not sure how adding to the length of the story makes it a documentary on the afterlife...
Who is "adding to the length of the story"?
I quoted the Master: and you side with a concocted chapter break to your advantage? :chuckle:
Mark 4:33-34
33 And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
Luke 10:23-24
23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Luke 17:1a
1a Then he said unto the disciples,
yeah I know the "today" word ..... Jesus himself did not ascend into heaven on that "day".
Acs 20
17Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Psalm 90:3-6
You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.
Job 7:21
"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."
Job 14:10-12
"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.
Psalm 13:3
Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,
Daniel 12:2
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 9:24
He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.
Mark 5:39
And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."
Luke 8:52-53
Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.
1 Kings 2:10
Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.
Deuteronomy 31:16
The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
2 Samuel 7:12
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.
1 Kings 11:43
And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.
1 Kings 14:20
The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.
1 Kings 16:6
And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.
1 Kings 22:50
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 14:16
So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 15:7
And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 16:20
So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.
2 Kings 20:21
So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 21:18
And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.
Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
John 11:11-14
This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.
Acts 7:60
Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:6
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
John 5:28-29
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Job 14:13-15
"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.
Psalm 17:15
As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.
Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
Luke 16:22-23
"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
1 Corinthians 15:20
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Jeremiah 51:57
"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.
Psalm 7:3-5
O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.
Psalm 76:5
The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.
Jeremiah 51:39
"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.
Acs 20
17Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Psalm 90:3-6
You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.
Job 7:21
"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."
Job 14:10-12
"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.
Psalm 13:3
Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,
Daniel 12:2
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 9:24
He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.
Mark 5:39
And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."
Luke 8:52-53
Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.
1 Kings 2:10
Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.
Deuteronomy 31:16
The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
2 Samuel 7:12
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.
1 Kings 11:43
And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.
1 Kings 14:20
The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.
1 Kings 16:6
And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.
1 Kings 22:50
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 14:16
So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 15:7
And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 16:20
So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.
2 Kings 20:21
So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.
2 Kings 21:18
And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.
Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
John 11:11-14
This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.
Acts 7:60
Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:6
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;
John 5:28-29
"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Job 14:13-15
"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.
Psalm 17:15
As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.
Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
Luke 16:22-23
"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
1 Corinthians 15:20
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Jeremiah 51:57
"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.
Psalm 7:3-5
O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.
Psalm 76:5
The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.
Jeremiah 51:39
"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.
Start earlier then and realize it is exactly about money and riches and being faithful serving just one master...loving One and HATING the other...which is EXACTLY what the pharisees struggle with rather being esteemed by men and their own teaching than faithful to His Law and its teaching...
The intro includes the LAW remaining and it being EASIER for heaven and earth to fall before a jot or tittle fails...
even the Pharisees teaching man can remarry because Moses blinked was NOT the teaching...and then the popular story of the rich man and Lazarus to teach as you now assert offences indeed occur but we are to forgive...Lazarus the rich man and the rich man Lazarus or the unrepentant offender should be cast into the sea...
The irony...cast into the SEA...water...not fire...lol...
NOTHING THERE ABOUT A DOCUMENTARY ON THE AFTERLIFE
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'll just chalk that up as the ignorant ramblings of a wanna be.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Nawww...all glory to Him for allowing you to please me with another opportunity to show how correct Peter was about your types trying to misuse Paul’s writings for themselves...
This time into saying that absent the body is automatically and instantaneously to be with present with the Lord...despite what he actually taught
And I am pleased that now again with this:
http://www.nazarene-friends.org/pubs/thedead/009.php
Not necessarily for you but again for others to see the opportunity you provide to restore Paul to the Way he lived and taught...Him/His way...
HalleluYah...yup I am a wanna be...wanna be closer to Him/ His way
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ah, so you are a cult. I knew it. :chuckle:
iouae
Well-known member
Spot on correct.
When we die, we sleep, and in the resurrection it seems, to the resurrected dead, as if no time has passed from dying to being with the Lord, although thousands of years might have passed.
Job knew he would have to wait thousands of years for his change from mortal to immortal.
Job 14:14
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Explain the "wait" in this phrase if we are immediately alive after death.
Even Jesus had to wait three days and three nights.
jsanford108
New member
Job would have had to wait, because Jesus had not yet come.
Do you have a NT verse that supports your position?
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iouae
Well-known member
The apostles liken death to sleep.
1Co 11:30
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Th 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him
Paul specifically says that David saw corruption.
Act 13:36
For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
If David immediately went to heaven, then David would not see corruption.
This is not a technicality. All humans saw corruption. Only Jesus did not. The Father would not allow Jesus to see corruption when he was dead.
iouae
Well-known member
Paul is explaining what David wrote about not letting his holy One see corruption.
Psa 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Some thought David was speaking of himself. Paul goes on to explain that David was prophesying about Jesus Christ/Messiah not seeing corruption.
Act 2:27
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 13:35
Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
If even David saw corruption, it proves that all humans who die will see corruption as their body decays, while they wait for the resurrection at the last trump.
jsanford108
New member
iouae
Well-known member
No.
This verse only makes sense if the dead are indeed dead.
1Co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I believe it was Satan's first lie that humans cannot die. "Thou shalt not surely die" since you have an immortal soul is implied. There is no immortal soul. Death means the cessation of life.
What a dope, you :dunce:
jsanford108
New member
Well, this verse works with doctrines of immortal souls, as well.
Okay. So, you do not believe in the immortal nature of the soul. Do you believe that Jesus is God Incarnate?
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Genesis 5:18 - And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
Genesis 5:22 - And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
Genesis 5:24 - And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.
Hebrews 11:5 - By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.