The Jesus Club

[iouae]

Wow, you keep saying that there is absolutely only one point to any and all parables, and yet this you yourself call a parable, and then proceed to make multiple points from it including annihilationism which is nowhere mentioned in any way shape or form! :chuckle:



Ask iouae: perhaps Abraham was a card carrying member of "The Jesus Club".

Well done Daqq, at least you are hearing what I say.

Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The soul that sins DIES, not lives forever in torment.

Even Satan dies. Watch how many times, and in different ways God says so, to make sure we get it.

Eze 28:18
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

And, by the way, the parable does make one point viz. suffer now, enjoy later, or enjoy now, suffer later. The rest is just bulk filler.

 

[clefty]

Of course you can show me where the "Way" believed in "soul sleep". opcorn:

Sure from the OT...dead are asleep, rest, no nothing etc..is why He said His friend Lazarus was asleep...and the disciples thought it was good...

Can you show me why He lied on the cross?

Shake head thingy

 

[clefty]

Ask iouae: perhaps Abraham was a card carrying member of "The Jesus Club".

Oh he is to be sure...He knew what Moses and the Prophets were about...and One rising from the dead not being able to convince...

thing is about the resurrection...why? I mean if the bad are in hell already and the good are in heaven...why not just leave it at that?

 

[iouae]

Sure from the OT...dead are asleep, rest, no nothing etc..is why He said His friend Lazarus was asleep...and the disciples thought it was good...

Can you show me why He lied on the cross?

Shake head thingy

Clefty is right. Christ was stone dead in the grave for 3 days, so no ways was the thief on the cross with Him TODAY in paradise. Christ never went directly to paradise THAT DAY.

 

[daqq]

Well done Daqq, at least you are hearing what I say.

Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The soul that sins DIES, not lives forever in torment.

Even Satan dies. Watch how many times, and in different ways God says so, to make sure we get it.

Eze 28:18
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

And, by the way, the parable does make one point viz. suffer now, enjoy later, or enjoy now, suffer later. The rest is just bulk filler.

Ah well, I was a tad more interested in hearing Clefty's response to Glorydaz's reference to the Way: but apparently the reference went right over his head? (judging by his response to that post?). You know that Paul was accused of being the new "ringleader" of the sect of the Nazoraeans, correct? (Acts 24:5). No doubt Glorydaz already knows what else Paul says in that same passage about the Way.

 

[clefty]

Well done Daqq, at least you are hearing what I say.

Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The soul that sins DIES, not lives forever in torment.

Even Satan dies. Watch how many times, and in different ways God says so, to make sure we get it.

Eze 28:18
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

And, by the way, the parable does make one point viz. suffer now, enjoy later, or enjoy now, suffer later. The rest is just bulk filler.

It is possible this story is not originally His but an old popular folk tale as it makes the very popular lesson: the rich will pay later and the poor will be paid later...

Note there is no specific sin the rich man did...as if being rich was enough for all these marxists round here...LOL...nor did the poor man repent or have faith but its assumed because he is poor he is rewarded later...

More here:


https://isthatinthebible.wordpress....-man-and-lazarus-a-fable-about-the-afterlife/

 

[God's Truth]

A Buddhist friend was explaining his beliefs to me. And in the conversation he mentioned what bad karma it was for a Buddhist to commit suicide.

I asked if a Buddhist committing suicide will be reincarnated as an ant or something worse. He started to explain how there are various branches of Buddhism, and they have rules regarding reincarnation, and that if one committees suicide, one can get sent to what sounded like our idea of "hell". I told him that all these rules for reincarnation sound complicated. He agreed saying he has studied it for 35 years and there is still lots he does not know.

I told him Christianity is much simpler. Suppose you were going to a club, and a bouncer at the door asks you if you are a friend of the manager. If you are, you can come in, if not, you remain outside. I said, to enter the Jesus Club, the bouncer will look on a list of names of all Jesus' friends, and if you are on the list, you are welcomed into the Jesus Club, with perks like eternal life and happiness.

He asked me if Buddhists and others would be allowed in, saying that Buddhists are very tolerant of all other faiths. I should have asked him if Buddhists consider themselves friends of Jesus. But instead I simply told him, "Sorry, no". The good news I told him, is that I don't believe in an ever burning hell, so if you don't make the Jesus Club, you are just wiped out. I had heard that Buddhists believed in Nirvana, which was a state like "nothingness" so we discussed this a little. As you may tell, I know nothing about Buddhism.

Would you say this is a more-or-less accurate portrayal of Christianity, and what it takes to receive eternal life?

It just doesn't seem right to compare being saved to that of a night club.

 

[clefty]

Ah well, I was a tad more interested in hearing Clefty's response to Glorydaz's reference to the Way: but apparently the reference went right over his head? (judging by his response to that post?). You know that Paul was accuses of being the new "ringleader" of the sect of the Nazoraeans, correct? (Acts 24:5). No doubt Glorydaz already knows what else Paul says in that same passage about the Way.

What else did Paul said? 14“I admit that I worship God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets...”

He spoke to Felix about righteousness, self control, and the judgement to come...imagine that...the judgement to come...in the future....when everybody dead is already seperated into burning in hell and in Abraham’s bosom...

 

[clefty]

It just doesn't seem right to compare being saved to that of a night club.

No worries...it has 10 rules but you only have to keep 9...lol

 

[glorydaz]

Sure from the OT...dead are asleep, rest, no nothing etc..is why He said His friend Lazarus was asleep...and the disciples thought it was good...

Can you show me why He lied on the cross?

Shake head thingy

Yeah, I saw how you snatched and grabbed a verse out of context in the OT. It's an old trick, but not even a decent try. Physical death is called sleep, because the body looks like it's sleeping, and that has nothing to do with the inner man. Paul tells us to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He knows something you don't. He certainly isn't talking about the resurrection of the body, either.

And Jesus didn't lie on the cross. The thief died and Jesus died and Jesus took the thief with him to Paradise. Paradise was not in heaven at that time, because Jesus did not ascend, Himself, for forty days. Why did you say 2 days? :readthis:

Why are you accusing Jesus of lying about Abraham's bosom and the place of the dead?

 

[God's Truth]

No worries...it has 10 rules but you only have to keep 9...lol

There is more than ten.

 

[clefty]

Clefty is right. Christ was stone dead in the grave for 3 days, so no ways was the thief on the cross with Him TODAY in paradise. Christ never went directly to paradise THAT DAY.

Jonah wasn’t dead but confined for 3 days and 3 nights...

Now for His friend Lazarus that dude was dead for 4 days and stinking...imagine the stories he could have told about heaven...”so there I was about to eat from the tree of life and POOF! I am here all wrapped up in stinking wraps”...or the opposite stories of hell...”SO WHY DID YOU WAIT SO LONG TO RAISE ME!!!” LOL...

But as it is we have NOTHING...four days and nothing about afterlife...

 

[iouae]

It just doesn't seem right to compare being saved to that of a night club.

Thanks for the feedback God's truth.

I never mentioned "night" club.

It could be a golfing estate club in the analogy.

 

[daqq]

What else did Paul said? 14“I admit that I worship God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets...”

He spoke to Felix about righteousness, self control, and the judgement to come...imagine that...the judgement to come...in the future....when everybody dead is already seperated into burning in hell and in Abraham’s bosom...

Nah, you have it all wrong for not understanding the reasoning behind the discourse. Lazarus is one of the "little ones", (the discourse does not end where you appear to think it does just because you see the modern invention of a chapter break). The whole punch-line reasoning of the discourse is found at the head of the next chapter, (Luk17:1-4), and some of the statements made therein are companion statements to companion passages found in other places containing the Testimony of the Master. You will need to put them all together if you want to understand: for instance, "little ones" is a phrase running through the Testimony, (search the phrase in the KJV), and it actually is not speaking about literal little children, just as here in this case "Lazarus" reveals, (it is obvious he was not a literal little child but he is called "one of these little ones", Luk17:2 KJV).

 

[clefty]

Yeah, I saw how you snatched and grabbed a verse out of context in the OT. It's an old trick, but not even a decent try.

actually more than 1 and the contexts hold...

Physical death is called sleep, because the body looks like it's sleeping,

oh thanks for that except the ones that are mangled and contorted in a train wreck like your logic...

and that has nothing to do with the inner man.

what does he look like when he sleeps?

Paul tells us to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

NOPE. Now you using Paul like Peter said your type would do...

We see that the text in 2 Corinthians 5:8 does not say that to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord. One does not equal the other.

“We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body AND to be present with the Lord”


So yes most of us would indeed rather be dead AND with the Lord but it does not mean being absent from the body IS being present with Him...

He knows something you don't.

helped teach me this that is for sure...“Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet“

He certainly isn't talking about the resurrection of the body, either.

https://www.truthaboutdeath.com/q-a...-from-the-body-is-to-be-present-with-the-lord

And Jesus didn't lie on the cross. The thief died and Jesus died and Jesus took the thief with him to Paradise. Paradise was not in heaven at that time, because Jesus did not ascend, Himself, for forty days.

ummm...ok looks like Peter was wrong...your type dont just misuse Paul’s writings...

Why did you say 2 days?

because He told Mary to tell the disciples He was ascending to His God...you know first fruits...maybe that’s when He took the theif along...but that wasn’t the TODAY of the telling...

Why are you accusing Jesus of lying about Abraham's bosom and the place of the dead?

He wasn’t...was retelling a fun story

 

[clefty]

Nah, you have it all wrong for not understanding the reasoning behind the discourse. Lazarus is one of the "little ones", (the discourse does not end where you appear to think it does just because you see the modern invention of a chapter break). The whole punch-line reasoning of the discourse is found at the head of the next chapter, (Luk17:1-4), and some of the statements made therein are companion statements to companion passages found in other places containing the Testimony of the Master. You will need to put them all together if you want to understand: for instance, "little ones" is a phrase running through the Testimony, (search the phrase in the KJV), and it actually is not speaking about literal little children, just as here in this case "Lazarus" reveals, (it is obvious he was not a literal little child but he is called "one of these little ones", Luk17:2 KJV).

It’s late...not sure what you are attempting to get at...

But as for I’mmortal...

http://www.unlearnthelies.com/understanding-life-after-death.html

 

[daqq]

It’s late...not sure what you are attempting to get at...

What I said was too hard to grasp?

Luke 16:29 - 17:2 KJV
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
01 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!^(Mat18:7)
02 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea,^(Mat18:6) than that he should offend one of these little ones.^{(Mat10:42, 18:6,10,14, Mrk9:42)}

 

[God's Truth]

Thanks for the feedback God's truth.

I never mentioned "night" club.

It could be a golfing estate club in the analogy.

So you defend yourself with dishonesty?

What is a "bouncer" doing in the golf club? Really?

 

[iouae]

So you defend yourself with dishonesty?

What is a "bouncer" doing in the golf club? Really?

Mar-a-Lago does not have bouncers????

 

[God's Truth]

Mar-a-Lago does not have bouncers????

Don't worry about it.