Did I mention "Well... at least until his next post... asking you to lay out exactly why you agree that he alone is right."
The Hebrew Epistles: Where Do They Fit?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Did I mention "Well... at least until his next post... asking you to lay out exactly why you agree that he alone is right."
heir
TOL Subscriber
:darwinsm:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Did I mention "Well... at least until his next post... asking you to lay out exactly why you agree that he alone is right."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here John is telling those to whom he was addressing that when the Lord Jesus appears that they will be like Him:
There was never a teaching in regard to kingdom saints which spoke of living saints being made like the Lord Jesus at His appearing so this has to refer to the rapture.
And it will only be those in the Body of Christ who will be raptured. Therefore, the saints who were being addressed by John were members of the Body of Christ.
Besides that, there is only one appearing of the Lord Jesus which can be described as "imminent" and that is the time when the living saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
The president of the Berean Bible Society is Paul Sadler and he is also a Neo-MADist. Here is what he says about the rapture:
The teaching that the rapture is "imminent" is supported by the following passage:
The Greek word eggus means "of times imminent" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
Those to whom the epistle of James were addressed were also expecting an "imminent" appearance of the Lord Jesus:
The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).
It is obvious that there can only be one appearing of the Lord which can be described as being "imminent" then it cannot be denied that those to whom the epistle of James were addressed were waiting for the rapture.
One of the chief spokesmen within the Neo-MAD moment is Paul Sadler and he says the following:
Therefore, there can be no doubt whatsoever that those who originally received the book of Hebrews were in the Body of Christ.
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).
There was never a teaching in regard to kingdom saints which spoke of living saints being made like the Lord Jesus at His appearing so this has to refer to the rapture.
And it will only be those in the Body of Christ who will be raptured. Therefore, the saints who were being addressed by John were members of the Body of Christ.
Besides that, there is only one appearing of the Lord Jesus which can be described as "imminent" and that is the time when the living saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
The president of the Berean Bible Society is Paul Sadler and he is also a Neo-MADist. Here is what he says about the rapture:
"According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is 'imminent,' that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, "The Present Obsession With the Anti-Christ," The Berean Searchlight, June, 1999, 7).
The teaching that the rapture is "imminent" is supported by the following passage:
"For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...The Lord is at hand (eggus)" (Phil.3:20-21;4:5).
The Greek word eggus means "of times imminent" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
Those to whom the epistle of James were addressed were also expecting an "imminent" appearance of the Lord Jesus:
"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near. Don't grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door! " (Jas 5:8-9).
The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).
It is obvious that there can only be one appearing of the Lord which can be described as being "imminent" then it cannot be denied that those to whom the epistle of James were addressed were waiting for the rapture.
One of the chief spokesmen within the Neo-MAD moment is Paul Sadler and he says the following:
"The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).
Therefore, there can be no doubt whatsoever that those who originally received the book of Hebrews were in the Body of Christ.
What a mess Jerry makes of 1 John 3:2.
Clearly, the man has invested very little time in learning how to study a thing out soundly...
heir
TOL Subscriber
I'm not surprised. Just look at his final authority: someone who doesn't believe in the preservation of scripture (Sadler) and his "the Greek...".
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You say that the KJV is without error but yet you refuse to believe what is written there:
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2; KJV).
All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:
"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13; KJV).
There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ.
But you deny that is true! Even though you claim that the KJV is without error you still refuse to believe what is written in these two verses from the KJV.
You prove that your final authority is what some men say about the Scriptures instead of what the Scriptures themselves actually say!
You final authority is what is taught in the Neo-MAD community and not what is found in the Bible.
The blowhard's "outpitch," that he spams on every thread/third post, that he thinks "clinches" the deal, on his argument, vs. others'.
Try this one: There can be no doubt whatsoever that you are wrong, and we are right.
Fun!
Another stunner, "debate ender."
Wow, Jerry. Stumped all of us. Yes siree............
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes sir, that's one subject you can't talk enough about, outpitches.
Mine was a split finger that started at the knees and ended up at the ankles. Straight down.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I appreciate your comic genius as well as STP's as much as anyone but there comes a time when we should all get serious. Let us look at this verse again:
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2; KJV).
STP just cannot cease from his humor and says that the "church of God" here refers to the " kingdom church," where there are no members of the Body of Christ.
Of course we can know that STP is just pulling our leg because Paul says the following to those who are in the church of God which is in Corinth:
"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13; KJV).
Again, no one enjoys your comic genius as much as I do, but there comes a time when we should be serious. Or perhaps you really believe that the "church of God" spoken of here and is made up of members of the Body of Christ is the "kingdom church" and not the Church, which is His Body?:
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2; KJV).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Mine was the "Ephus" pitch, AKA my "boomerooski," which is slower than your dial-up internet service, or slower than you doing Algebra with your abacus, Mayor.
Obviously, I'm running out of material, again-dry as dust.
There can be no doubt whatsoever that you made that up.
Let's look at Genesis-Revelation again.
QED.
I just shut Jerry down.
Fun! No doubt whatsoever!
I think the Milo boys have them, along with that side car of yours.
I'm almost tempted to agree with Jerry, just to shut him up...
But he'd only follow that with a request for specifics as to how exactly he alone is correct.
Of course, that would lead to one round after another of how to say just right why he alone is right - in a way that he will be happy with, if there is such a moment in the land of self-delusion, and profound neurosis...
In which case, as some Puerto Ricans say; "take a seat, you have a long wait," lol
In which case, as some African Americans used to say, "talk to the hand."
In short - "Not!" and "lose-lose"...and more lose-lose, where that fool is concerned...
But he'd only follow that with a request for specifics as to how exactly he alone is correct.
Of course, that would lead to one round after another of how to say just right why he alone is right - in a way that he will be happy with, if there is such a moment in the land of self-delusion, and profound neurosis...
In which case, as some Puerto Ricans say; "take a seat, you have a long wait," lol
In which case, as some African Americans used to say, "talk to the hand."
In short - "Not!" and "lose-lose"...and more lose-lose, where that fool is concerned...
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
One of the chief spokesman of the Neo-MAD community is Paul Sadler, the president of the Berean Bible Society. Here he teaches why some Jews of the first century were in the Body of Christ and others weren't:
Here Peter makes it plain that the "gospel" is what saved those whom he addressed:
At verse 25 the word "this" must be referring to something found in the context which refers to the gospel in question and these veeses are referring to that gospel:
Those facts are an integral part of the gospel by which we are saved today. One of the giants of the original teaching within true MAD, J.C. O'Hair, wrote:
If those in the Neo-MAD camp cannot see the gospel which Paul preached in Peter's first epistle then you know nothing about Paul's gospel.
"The company of saints who make up Christ's Body consists of 'only' those who are saved from the conversation of the Apostle Paul until the sound of the trump at the Rapture (I Tim. 1:15,16; I Cor. 12:27; I Thess. 4:13-18). 'Only those who have been saved under the terms of salvation found in Paul's epistles make up the true church of this dispensation (I Cor.15:1-4)'" (Paul M. Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Germantown, WI: Worzalla Publishing, 1993], 103).
Here Peter makes it plain that the "gospel" is what saved those whom he addressed:
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God[/B]...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23, 25).
At verse 25 the word "this" must be referring to something found in the context which refers to the gospel in question and these veeses are referring to that gospel:
"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).
Those facts are an integral part of the gospel by which we are saved today. One of the giants of the original teaching within true MAD, J.C. O'Hair, wrote:
"Believers are saved by the gospel set forth by Paul in I Corinthians 15:1 to 4. But in my judgment there is no more definite, true statement of the gospel, in any of Paul's messages, than we have in I Peter 3:18. This is one of my favorite verses in preaching to sinners. Then think of I Peter 2:24 and I Peter 1:18 to 20. In these verses we learn that we are redeemed by the precious shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, because the Lord Jesus bare our sins in His own body on the tree" [emphasis mine] (J.C. O'Hair, Did Peter and Paul Preach Different Gospels? ).
If those in the Neo-MAD camp cannot see the gospel which Paul preached in Peter's first epistle then you know nothing about Paul's gospel.
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Add the above "debate ender/clincher," that Jerry thinks "closes the deal," to...
"There can be no doubt whatsoever that..."-Jerry
Try this:
Romans-Philemon makes it plain that you are wrong re. your dispensational interpretation.
Fun!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Just another one from the Neo-MAD crowd who cannot see Paul's gospel in Peter's first epistle!
Perhaps he is just too busy dreaming of his future career in comedy to take the Scriptures seriously?
There can be no doubt whatsoever that Romans-Philemon makes it plain that you cannot see what Paul's gospel is, and there can be no doubt whatsoever that you are wrong.
Fun-nothin' to this debating gig! You taught us that-we learned that from you, blowhard, with an unteacheable "spirit."