THE ANGEL of YHWH appeared to Moses out of the burning bush - Exodus 3

[Ps82]

Daqq ... I was using the King James English ... and It says: No man ...
And it is the truth that No man at any time had seen God, the begotten Son, ... but John the Baptist declared HIM to men in his day and still does in scripture.

John 1 is written by a man named John and he relates what John the Baptist had said about Jesus being the Messiah.

Just mull my ideas over and keep them in your mind as you read scripture ... and I think one day you will comprehend what I am saying.

I enjoyed our conversation. Hope I will have some time to join back in this week. God bless

 

[daqq]

If you had a Greek rebuttal, you would have already used it by now.

Be careful what you ask for...

Exposed yourself.

A Greek rebuttal? Exposed myself?
You have added words into the text that are NOT there!
How is that supposed to be rebutted?

Daqq ... I was using the King James English ... and It says: No man ...
And it is the truth that No man at any time had seen God, the begotten Son, ... but John the Baptist declared HIM to men in his day and still does in scripture.

John 1 is written by a man named John and he relates what John the Baptist had said about Jesus being the Messiah.

Just mull my ideas over and keep them in your mind as you read scripture ... and I think one day you will comprehend what I am saying.

I enjoyed our conversation. Hope I will have some time to join back in this week. God bless

The following passages from two different Greek texts have nothing wrong in translation:

John 1:18 Westcott-Hort
18 θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο
18 No one has seen Elohim at any time: [the] only begotten Elohim, who is in the bosom of the Father, that one has declared Him.

John 1:18 Textus Receptus
18 θεον ουδεις εωρακε πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο
18 No one has seen Elohim at any time: the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that one has declared Him.

The only begotten one of a kind Elohim-Son of Elohim has never been seen by anyone because he is the express image of the Father and is always in the bay or bosom of the Father. That is why he says to his disciples, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father", and that is not by "seeing" with the eyes of the flesh because the words that Yeshua speaks in the Gospel accounts are SPIRIT and they are life. You cannot see spoken words with physical eyes because spoken word is spirit which travels through the AIR into your ears: testimony is SPIRIT.

 

[daqq]

The only begotten one of a kind Elohim-Son of Elohim has never been seen by anyone because he is the express image of the Father and is always in the bay or bosom of the Father. That is why he says to his disciples, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father", and that is not by "seeing" with the eyes of the flesh because the words that Yeshua speaks in the Gospel accounts are SPIRIT and they are life. You cannot see spoken words with physical eyes because spoken word is spirit which travels through the AIR into your ears: testimony is SPIRIT.

That is also why Yeshua calls him the SON OF MAN; because he is the Logos-Word of Elohim that was given from the Father above to MAN, and spoken from the mouth of MAN, and therefore born of MAN as well as having come from above. A man can receive nothing unless it be given him from the heavens, (John 3:27) and the Son of Man is he that descended from the heavens, (John 3:13), in the somatiko-corporeal-bodily form of a supernatural Dove, (Luke 3:22).

 

[Apple7]

A Greek rebuttal? Exposed myself?
You have added words into the text that are NOT there!
How is that supposed to be rebutted?

Numerous translations support the rendering posited.

'Elohim' is not supported....neither is your denial...

 

[Ben Masada]

Daqq ... I was using the King James English ... and It says: No man ... And it is the truth that No man at any time had seen God, the begotten Son, ... but John the Baptist declared HIM to men in his day and still does in scripture.

The only begotten son of God, HaShem Himself declared: "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that he may serve Me." You cannot compare what HaShem says with what man says.(Exodus 4:22,23)

John 1 is written by a man named John and he relates what John the Baptist had said about Jesus being the Messiah.

The gospel attributed to John was written by a Hellenist former disciple of Paul. Never a Jew wrote a single page of the NT. Jews would not write against their own Faith.

Just mull my ideas over and keep them in your mind as you read scripture ... and I think one day you will comprehend what I am saying.

I can't promise that because your words are of the anti-Jewish kind; just as the NT is.

I enjoyed our conversation. Hope I will have some time to join back in this week. God bless.

You are sincerely welcome!

 

[Ps82]

Ben Masada ... Well wasn't the OT written by inspired men? Do you also deny the Old Testament regarding God's actions and his relationship with the patriarchs and the nation of Israel?

 

[daqq]

Numerous translations support the rendering posited.

'Elohim' is not supported....neither is your denial...

There are some translations that insert the words that you also insert but that is only because they love Trinity more then the Word. Defiling the Word because you love another god does not make you a disciple of the Word but rather a murderer of the Word. As for Theos rendered Elohim please read the Septuagint version of the Genesis creation account and stop saying things you know are not true out of your devotion to Trinity. All of your denials are also based solely in your love for Trinity.

 

[daqq]

'Elohim' is not supported....

John 1:1 T/R - W/H
1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

Genesis 1:1 LXX-Septuagint
1 εν αρχη εποιησεν ο θεος τον ουρανον και την γην

:duh:

 

[Apple7]

There are some translations that insert the words that you also insert but that is only because they love Trinity more then the Word. Defiling the Word because you love another god does not make you a disciple of the Word but rather a murderer of the Word. As for Theos rendered Elohim please read the Septuagint version of the Genesis creation account and stop saying things you know are not true out of your devotion to Trinity. All of your denials are also based solely in your love for Trinity.

No artificial wording has been inserted.

Nor can you prove otherwise.

Stall.

 

[Apple7]

John 1:1 T/R - W/H
1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

Genesis 1:1 LXX-Septuagint
1 εν αρχη εποιησεν ο θεος τον ουρανον και την γην

:duh:

The words in question here are Theon and Theos....NOT elohim!

The LXX is a translation.

The Greek NT is not.

Rotflol...:doh:

 

[daqq]

No artificial wording has been inserted.

Nor can you prove otherwise.

Stall.

You inserted "but", which is generally rendered from either δε or αλλα, and yet neither of those words are in the text which you translated. You also inserted "himself", (εαυτου or at the very least αυτος), neither of which are in the text. You essentially took corrupt and liberal minded paraphrase versions like the NIV and New Living Translation and changed the latter part of the statement to make up your own version:

New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Berean Study Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father's side, has made Him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Berean Literal Bible
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

King James Bible
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

International Standard Version
No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

NET Bible
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

New Heart English Bible
No one has seen God at any time. The only God, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

GOD'S WORD® Translation
No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

New American Standard 1977
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Jubilee Bible 2000
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

King James 2000 Bible
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

American King James Version
No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

American Standard Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Douay-Rheims Bible
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Darby Bible Translation
No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

English Revised Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Webster's Bible Translation
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Weymouth New Testament
No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the Father's bosom--He has made Him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

World English Bible
No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Young's Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

You simply follow those who inserted "himself" which is based only in Trinitarian logic and bias.
Anyone that might be interested in a strictly literal rendering can go here:
http://biblehub.com/text/john/1-18.htm

There is therefore nothing wrong with what I previously posted:

John 1:18 W/H
18 θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο
18 θεον (Elohim/God) ουδεις (no one/none) εωρακεν (has seen) πωποτε (at any time) μονογενης (only begotten) θεος (Elohim/God) ο ων (who is) εις (in) τον (the) κολπον (bosom) του (of the) πατρος (Father) εκεινος (that one) εξηγησατο (has declared [Him])

John 1:18 T/R
18 θεον ουδεις εωρακε πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο
18 θεον (Elohim/God) ουδεις (no one/none) εωρακεν (has seen) πωποτε (at any time) ο (the) μονογενης (only begotten) υιος (Son) ο ων (who is) εις (in) τον (the) κολπον (bosom) του (of the) πατρος (Father) εκεινος (that one) εξηγησατο (has declared [Him])

There is no "BUT" and there is no "WHO IS HIMSELF GOD" in any Greek text.
It is rather Trinitarian word sorcery the likes of Elymas Bar-Jesus son of Jesus. :chuckle:

 

[daqq]

The words in question here are Theon and Theos....NOT elohim!

The LXX is a translation.

The Greek NT is not.

Rotflol...:doh:

Do you not know that most New Testament quotes of the Tanach come from the LXX? :rotfl:

 

[Apple7]

You inserted "but", which is generally rendered from either δε or αλλα, and yet neither of those words are in the text which you translated. You also inserted "himself", (εαυτου or at the very least αυτος), neither of which are in the text. You essentially took corrupt and liberal minded paraphrase versions like the NIV and New Living Translation and changed the latter part of the statement to make up your own version:

New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Berean Study Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father's side, has made Him known.
http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

You need to read what you slavishly google, before pasting it as your reply.

 

[Apple7]

Do you not know that most New Testament quotes of the Tanach come from the LXX? :rotfl:

John 1.18 does not.

Owned.

 

[daqq]

You need to read what you slavishly google, before pasting it as your reply.

Your reply only shows that you either did not read or are not capable of comprehending what was said. YOU simply copied from some of those renderings, (which I quoted to show from where your rendering came from). YOU cherry picked from other translators what you wanted and made up your own Trinitarian biased translation. You did not get what you rendered from the text itself because the words YOU inserted are not in the text.

 

[daqq]

John 1.18 does not.

Owned.

It does not matter whether or not John 1:18 is a quote from the Tanach when the FACT is that Theos is employed for Elohim whenever Elohim is found in the Hebrew Text. There may be found only a scant few places where another word may be used such as when Elohim clearly means Angels, (i.e. Psalm 8:5 which reads αγγελους in both the Septuagint and Hebrews 2:7). No one is that blind so you again only argue the point because of your love for Trinity. :crackup:

 

[beameup]

If you believe not that I AM you will die in your sins

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM

That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow

 

[daqq]

If you believe not that I AM you will die in your sins

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM

That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow

We've already been over all of these things and you rejected the truth:

Take heed that no one deceive you: for many shall come in my name saying that I AM, and they shall deceive many.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am before Abraham comes to pass.
For all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yochanan.

For it is written, As I Live, says YHWH, Every knee shall bow TO ME and every tongue shall confess to Elohim.

That IN the name of Yeshua every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Yeshua is YHWH's Anointed one, to the glory of Elohim, the Father.

Do you suppose that five point bold red makes you more right in what you write? Should I have used seven point font so that my words would be louder than yours and therefore more correct by your font based theology? :chuckle:

 

[Crucible]

Yes.

Stephen stated that the Malek in the burning bush, WHO SPOKE TO MOSES, was both Lord and God (Act 7.30 – 33, 35, 38).

That sounds more modalist than trinitarian.

I think you all are looking too far into it.

 

[beameup]

Do you suppose that five point bold red makes you more right in what you write?

My use of red illustrates the unquenchable fire of God.