ST. JOHN 11:26

[Rosenritter]

See 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

Also very well paired with 1 Corinthians 15 chapter. We are with the Lord after he returns, and the hope for our beloved that have died in Christ is in the return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead.

 

[Derf]

Just pointing out that (at least according to John) Moses was in Christ as well.

Hebrews 11:24-26 KJV
(24) By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
(25) Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
(26) Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Indeed. And I don't doubt that Moses will be one of those that is resurrected in the first resurrection. I'm not as sure about some of the folks that left Egypt with him. Even though:
[1Co 10:4 ESV] and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.


Because:
[1Co 10:5 ESV] Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
[1Co 10:6 ESV] Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did.
[1Co 10:7 ESV] Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play."

I'm just saying that God seems to make a distinction in this life, based on how we act. He seems to want to test us sometimes to determine if we really are committed to Him. And perhaps He accomplishes all the testing that He needs before we die, and then He knows whether we are truly His by that time.

But it seems that some will fail that test. We cling to the intercession of Jesus Christ, but are there those that do so unworthily? In other words, claiming His name, but not backing it up? Matt 25

 

[Jacob]

Also very well paired with 1 Corinthians 15 chapter. We are with the Lord after he returns, and the hope for our beloved that have died in Christ is in the return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead.

Thank you again for your contribution to this thread. It is very much appreciated. I want to be open to what the word has to say, even if it says that some of them or (even) us will die. For example, you will not all sleep.

 

[Jacob]

Indeed. And I don't doubt that Moses will be one of those that is resurrected in the first resurrection. I'm not as sure about some of the folks that left Egypt with him. Even though:
[1Co 10:4 ESV] and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.


Because:
[1Co 10:5 ESV] Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
[1Co 10:6 ESV] Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did.
[1Co 10:7 ESV] Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play."

I'm just saying that God seems to make a distinction in this life, based on how we act. He seems to want to test us sometimes to determine if we really are committed to Him. And perhaps He accomplishes all the testing that He needs before we die, and then He knows whether we are truly His by that time.

But it seems that some will fail that test. We cling to the intercession of Jesus Christ, but are there those that do so unworthily? In other words, claiming His name, but not backing it up? Matt 25

The test that I have spoken of is 2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

 

[Derf]

The test that I have spoken of is 2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

What do you think the test is? your reference speaks of it, but not what it is.

 

[Rosenritter]

What do you think the test is? your reference speaks of it, but not what it is.

Might this be relevant? "Test" and "trial" are close synonyms.

1 Peter 1:7 KJV
(7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Revelation 3:18-19 KJV
(18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[Derf]

Might this be relevant? "Test" and "trial" are close synonyms.

1 Peter 1:7 KJV
(7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Revelation 3:18-19 KJV
(18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(19) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Except that it is hard to "examine yourself" with a trial by fire that is God's chastening.

I certainly wonder what the state of people not seemingly tried by fire will be. That includes most of North American Christians, including myself. I trust in Christ's sacrifice, and find my hope in His resurrection, but is other testing necessary? Maybe we are like the guy who only gets 1 talent--not much testing.

 

[Rosenritter]

Except that it is hard to "examine yourself" with a trial by fire that is God's chastening.

I certainly wonder what the state of people not seemingly tried by fire will be. That includes most of North American Christians, including myself. I trust in Christ's sacrifice, and find my hope in His resurrection, but is other testing necessary? Maybe we are like the guy who only gets 1 talent--not much testing.

Matthew 25:37 KJV
(37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

1 John 4:20-21 KJV
(20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
(21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

 

[Jacob]

What do you think the test is? your reference speaks of it, but not what it is.

It may be that if Christ is in you you pass the test.

 

[lifeisgood]

Is there a time (or a reason) when you would say that salvation would not be "still going on?"

Is there a time [or a reason] when you would say that the Holy Spirit would not be "still going on?"

 

[lifeisgood]

Genesis 3:3-4 KJV
(3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

John 8:24 KJV
(24) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

There are two different messages there: "you shall die" and "you shall not die." One of those is truthful and one is a lie. Be careful of which side you support.

Even the parable of Lazarus says that he died. It does not say he was alive" neither he, nor the rich man nor Abraham are alive: they are figures in a colorful story. And have you ever considered why everyone in that story is specifically named except the rich man? Why does he have five brothers? Why are we told so many other details about him?

No, they did die. The problem is that we in modern times only think of death as physical. Death is not annihilation. Life continues on eternally as the Bible says the body goes back to where it came from (dust) and the life goes back to the one who gave it (God).

So, Abraham responding to the man asking for a drop of water to be placed in his tongue while burning in hell means that they are dead and you answer like Alexa when asked "Alexa who is Jesus Christ?" and Alexa answers, "Jesus Christ is a fictional character."

The man did not want his five brothers to come and visit him in his place of LIVING torment.
Now, you want to be like Alexa, that's your freedom of choice to do so.

 

[lifeisgood]

I believe that Jesus is at the right hand of God, after having resurrected, appeared to many, and ascended. What was your reason for saying that Jesus is interceding for us?

'cause the Bible tells me so: Romans 8:34

 

[Jacob]

'cause the Bible tells me so: Romans 8:34

Thank you. I forgot this. I was thinking about the Holy Spirit.

 

[way 2 go]

What do you think of this verse? How are we to understand it?

ST. JOHN 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

ST. JOHN 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
ST. JOHN 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
ST. JOHN 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

our bodies will die but our spirits continue on Luk 16:22-23
and our spirits will either continue on with God or still separated from God after our bodies die

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you will be with Me in Paradise.

separated from God before death. = Mat 8:22 And Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."

people who had faith before Jesus died went to Abraham's side & unbelievers to Hades

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

the criminal from Luk 23:43 is with God ,Jesus will bring him with him when he returns.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

and the rich man from Luk 16:22-23 will be raised up from hades where his spirit is today
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

 

[Jacob]

our bodies will die but our spirits continue on Luk 16:22-23
and our spirits will either continue on with God or still separated from God after our bodies die

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you will be with Me in Paradise.

separated from God before death. = Mat 8:22 And Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."

people who had faith before Jesus died went to Abraham's side & unbelievers to Hades

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

the criminal from Luk 23:43 is with God ,Jesus will bring him with him when he returns.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

and the rich man from Luk 16:22-23 will be raised up from hades where his spirit is today
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

I know that if a person dies, it is an individual who died. I am unfamiliar with body and spirit being separated.

 

[glorydaz]

No, they did die. The problem is that we in modern times only think of death as physical. Death is not annihilation. Life continues on eternally as the Bible says the body goes back to where it came from (dust) and the life goes back to the one who gave it (God).

So, Abraham responding to the man asking for a drop of water to be placed in his tongue while burning in hell means that they are dead and you answer like Alexa when asked "Alexa who is Jesus Christ?" and Alexa answers, "Jesus Christ is a fictional character."

The man did not want his five brothers to come and visit him in his place of LIVING torment.
Now, you want to be like Alexa, that's your freedom of choice to do so.

:first:

 

[Rosenritter]

Is there a time [or a reason] when you would say that the Holy Spirit would not be "still going on?"

Not in the general sense, certainly not in the sense that I have heard from some that "The holy spirit is no longer in the world." Perhaps for a specific person or individual, as in Psalms 51:11, "Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy holy spirit from me."

 

[Rosenritter]

No, they did die. The problem is that we in modern times only think of death as physical. Death is not annihilation. Life continues on eternally as the Bible says the body goes back to where it came from (dust) and the life goes back to the one who gave it (God).

The problem is that the Bible itself from ancient times defines death as the cessation of life, knowledge, feeling, emotion, light, anything at all. It does not say that we "live on in another place" but that God himself takes the life back. Your meaning of "never dying" has its derivation from the pagan religions and Greek philosophy...

... and ultimately from the first liar, the serpent in Eden.

So, Abraham responding to the man asking for a drop of water to be placed in his tongue while burning in hell means that they are dead and you answer like Alexa when asked "Alexa who is Jesus Christ?" and Alexa answers, "Jesus Christ is a fictional character."

It seems that you do not understand the meaning of the word "parable."

The man did not want his five brothers to come and visit him in his place of LIVING torment.
Now, you want to be like Alexa, that's your freedom of choice to do so.

I don't see the word "living" in that parable. But tell me, who were his five brothers? If you think this was a literal account (smack between other parables) then it is your burden of proof to establish that this was somehow not a parable even though it was inserted in the context of parables.

 

[glorydaz]

The problem is that the Bible itself from ancient times defines death as the cessation of life, knowledge, feeling, emotion, light, anything at all. It does not say that we "live on in another place" but that God himself takes the life back. Your meaning of "never dying" has its derivation from the pagan religions and Greek philosophy...

... and ultimately from the first liar, the serpent in Eden.

Rosenritter believes in Soul Sleep. That is a cult belief.

It seems that you do not understand the meaning of the word "parable."

Rosenritter thinks we're all dummies......has a problem with being condescending.

None of the "parables" use names....clue one.

I don't see the word "living" in that parable. But tell me, who were his five brothers? If you think this was a literal account (smack between other parables) then it is your burden of proof to establish that this was somehow not a parable even though it was inserted in the context of parables.

It was not inserted smack in the middle of parables.

 

[Rosenritter]

Rosenritter believes in Soul Sleep. That is a cult belief.

Rosenritter thinks we're all dummies......has a problem with being condescending.

None of the "parables" use names....clue one.

It was not inserted smack in the middle of parables.

Glory has a problem with "smack talk." Tell me Glory, where is this alleged "rule of parable names" written? In a Dispensationalism handbook? Yes, that's right, it's the Scofield Reference bible where that rule was writ...

The hilarious part is that the Scofield reference bible contradicts its own "rule" in Ezekiel 23, calling it the parable of Aholah and Aholibah.

Ezekiel 23:4 KJV
(4) And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

Apparently parables do use proper names. Do you have any other authority for your alleged rule, Glory?