glorydaz
Well-known member
Your soul sleep belief is typical of most cults. Which one are you?
ST. JOHN 11:26
- Thread starter Jacob
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Your soul sleep belief is typical of most cults. Which one are you?
A sect known as “the Way”...heard of it? Myriads of jews followed too...believed and were still zealous for the law...and all those goyim crowding the synagogues...hearing Moses preached and read every Sabbath...I am with all those martyred uncompromised for fanboyz or forum status...but FOR HIM AS HE DID...following Him...picking up the cross...
You are following another tradition...the pharisees...then more jews baring false witness and finally Rome itself mocked at first...but then well...
glorydaz
Well-known member
You are falsely accusing the early believers.
Sleep always refers to the body.
Your foolishness proves you belong to some cult.
Now, which cult do you belong to.
opcorn:You are falsely accusing the early believers.
Sleep always refers to the body.
Your foolishness proves you belong to some cult.
Now, which cult do you belong to.
Here’s the formula again...
body formed from dust + spirit breathed into it = living soul
At death the body back to dust...the spirit back to the Lendor...no living soul...
Until...resurrection day the last trump His appearing...
glorydaz
Well-known member
There's your first problem.
Man is a living soul, but also has a soul.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
You refuse to believe that man is triune, just as God is triune. Thus your error.
See, you ignore man's soul. That's error.
With your limited definition of man's soul, this verse is a joke.
Will you joke about it, too? How is it that they can kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul?
Matthew 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
oh boy...here we go...
Nothing there about souls beyond the grave...the body dead and back to dust the spirit returned and souls asleep are EXACTLY blameless...LOL...the concern is that all 3 are BLAMELESS unto the coming of our Lord...not conscious until that day...
You add to that that after death the soul is conscious and floating about without flesh or blood or bones...not able to touch or eat but to what end pray tell? The dead can not worship...or?
good and necessary to judge which of these souls continue and which of these die the second death...You add to that that after death the soul is conscious and floating about without flesh or blood or bones...not able to touch or eat but to what end pray tell? The dead can not worship...or?
I gave you the formula its 3 parts...hmmm so you created a triune god from the image of man? No surprise as yours would change both times and laws too...
Understanding it sleeps is not ignoring it...had He once said the soul is in heaven when the body is dead would then not have you yours in error...but He never once said that...
no joke...body to dust...spirit returned to Lendor...soul asleep...the joke is that you agree with the father of lies...you shall surely NOT DIE...joke is you think the Soul is immortal...when He clearly seperated man from the tree of life to receive the wages of sin DEATH...not an upgrade to the spiritual realm...
If ghosts and spirits were possible why even bother with the physical?
see that is funny...you do think the Soul is immortal...not dependent on the tree of life...but could live on without His Spirit...only ONE is immortal...silly
Right they cant kill the soul but fear Him which is able to DESTROY both soul and body...destroy as in NO MORE...final...destroyed...
NOT a constant state of being destroyed or being tormented or tortured forever...but destroyed...GONE...annihilated...body and soul...the spirit remains the Lendor’s...
glorydaz
Well-known member
So you discount the verses you can't understand...just as you discount what you cannot see with your eyes.
You're a natural man, Clefty, and have no knowledge of spiritual things.
All this because you reject our Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour God. :sigh:
You repeat lies so much you convince yourself...
Rejecting Him is by not following Him His way...rapturing yourself from His burden His yoke...dividing His house between those that have chores and those that do not...
Paul instructed copy him as he copied Him...ya dig? You are not copying either...
way 2 go
Well-known member
Heb_9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Judgement "day" is later
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Mat 12:36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,
Rom 2:16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
lake of fire is the second death.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
raised from ?
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Hades is a place for spirits only
1 :AMR: Hades & Abraham's side are places of waiting
2 Abraham & Lazarus are not in heaven , so Judgement day has not happened.
3 see above (Joh 3:18)
4 Angels carried Lazarus spirit
as you said "his main point is that it would be ineffectual"
Abraham & Lazarus are not in heaven , so Judgement day has not happened.
Derf
Well-known member
Hi w2g. Sorry about the delayed response--been out of country with no internet.
If we define "death" as the loss of all function of our bodies, but then we retain all that functionality in a bodiless state, I have a hard time calling it "death". "Death" would then have to be defined as something different. Would you like to give me a better definition of death?
[quote}
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Hades is a place for spirits only
[/QUOTE]We talked about this already. If you want to be consistent, then if SPIRITS are being liberated from HADES, then SPIRITS must be being liberated from the SEA. But I've never heard any kind of doctrine tell us that spirits/souls are being kept in the sea awaiting judgment.
)
I don't want to just be obstinate in this discussion--I want to separate truth from tradition, wheat from chaff. If we can limit ourselves to expressing just what the scriptures say, and no more (at least without proper caveats), then I think can more easily arrive at the truth.
You and [MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] have done a masterful job of presenting the traditional storyline on Hades, but it doesn't follow scripture in all cases. That's not saying it IS wrong, only that it has extra-biblical elements that MIGHT be wrong.
I would think this might bring questions to your mind about what "condemned" means vs judgment. Or what is the purpose of a judgment day, if judgment has already been rendered. I think we HAVE been judged already--in the garden. We were promised death, and since then all have received or are going to receive that punishment (Rom 5:12 and others). Since that was a judgment, based on our sin, and since the "wages of sin is death", why is it that we would need to die, then be resurrected, and then die a second death (assuming we aren't converted)?
If we define "death" as the loss of all function of our bodies, but then we retain all that functionality in a bodiless state, I have a hard time calling it "death". "Death" would then have to be defined as something different. Would you like to give me a better definition of death?
That was my question. If they are spirits being raised up from Hades, then it isn't a "resurrection", is it--a raising from "the dead" (also used in raising up from sleep)? You're getting all tangled up in your redefinitions. Now you need to redefine "resurrection" to mean raising from Hades, and from the sea.
[quote}
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Hades is a place for spirits only
[/QUOTE]We talked about this already. If you want to be consistent, then if SPIRITS are being liberated from HADES, then SPIRITS must be being liberated from the SEA. But I've never heard any kind of doctrine tell us that spirits/souls are being kept in the sea awaiting judgment.
Which you don't seem to be able to cite scripture for. Abraham's bosom ("side" as you say here) is ONLY mentioned in this story of Lazarus and the rich man, but there is no hint--not a jot or a tittle--of any kind of waiting going on. If I've missed it, please show me where it is.
The only location given in the story is that of the rich man, who is in Hades. It doesn't say where Abraham and Lazarus are. Surely Abraham is not in Abraham's bosom, is he? Thus, your interpretation of "Abraham's side" seems a good one. But Abraham can't be at Abraham's side (unless he's "beside himself" with joy.
)The problem with that interpretation is that we have no indication that Lazarus believed in Jesus, do we? If so, where? So these passages don't really integrate very well.
And one finger...
As I said above, there is no location provided in the story to let us know where Lazarus and Abraham are. And because none of our other descriptions of Hades include any kind of interaction like this, it seems without merit to conclude that Abraham and Lazarus are in Hades.
I don't want to just be obstinate in this discussion--I want to separate truth from tradition, wheat from chaff. If we can limit ourselves to expressing just what the scriptures say, and no more (at least without proper caveats), then I think can more easily arrive at the truth.
You and [MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] have done a masterful job of presenting the traditional storyline on Hades, but it doesn't follow scripture in all cases. That's not saying it IS wrong, only that it has extra-biblical elements that MIGHT be wrong.