ST. JOHN 11:26

[glorydaz]

Not much there at all about landing on crowded Abraham’s bosom...or floating about naked and unclothed as a spirit...

Right, Job was the go-to guy on these things. :chuckle:

Job 38:1-5
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?​

And as far as your mocking of Abraham's bosom, how about mocking God? He has a bosom, too.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

 

[glorydaz]

You started it with your “to be absent the body IS to be present...”

Deceived yourself just like eve and her “don’t touch”

At least that finally I added is exactly what Paul is well pleased about...that FINAL appearing at the FINAL trump...

Absent from the body and to be present with the Lord shows the immediacy of the fact.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.​

Paul is clearly only referring to the body.

2 Corinthians 5:6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:​

He says he would rather be absent from the body...his confidence is in being with the Lord, not laying in a grave until the Lord returns.

 

[clefty]

Right, Job was the go-to guy on these things. :chuckle:

sure why not? He also taught me to heed poor counsel of others who would rather shirk or avoid or make it easier...

Job 38:1-5
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?​

yup nothing there about Abraham’s Bosom Motel...

And as far as your mocking of Abraham's bosom, how about mocking God? He has a bosom, too.

not mocking Abraham’s bosom...He is dead buried sleeping with his people...Yah does have a bosom and I earnestly pray that when I am risen from my sleep the dead and reunited with both spirit and soul I will bodily be able to embrace and lean my head on It...not a moment sooner or as a spirit...

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

NO man hath indeed seen Yah...but you and yours would have all dead in Him to already be floating about naked NOT clothed in heavenly bodies and seeing Him...

 

[clefty]

Absent from the body and to be present with the Lord shows the immediacy of the fact.

LOL... NOT even true in the physical secular temporal realm...absent the USA and present in Japan is NOT immediately...duh

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.​

Paul is clearly only referring to the body.

clearly...it is yours that add to that the spirit naked NOT clothed further clothed by heavenly buildings not made by hand...

2 Corinthians 5:6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:​

He says he would rather be absent from the body...his confidence is in being with the Lord, not laying in a grave until the Lord returns.

Of course He would rather be absent from the body AND present with the Lord...duh...is exactly what he wrote...

You and yours add to that the implication that to be absent IS not only to be immediately but in spirit form with the Lord...

 

[way 2 go]

Resisting Moses is what?

10 “But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And pout of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and call who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known tthe Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”

a broken clock is right twice a day , I keep waiting for you to get at least one thing right.

Resisting Moses is what?

2Ti 3:10 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness,
2Ti 3:11 my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me.
2Ti 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.


Exo 7:22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same by their secret arts. So Pharaoh's heart remained hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.

 

[clefty]

a broken clock is right twice a day , I keep waiting for you to get at least one thing right.

Resisting Moses is what?

2Ti 3:10 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness,
2Ti 3:11 my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me.
2Ti 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.


Exo 7:22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same by their secret arts. So Pharaoh's heart remained hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.

Right you are yours believe as the Egyptians did in the dead continuing as spirits...

And?

 

[glorydaz]

Right you are yours believe as the Egyptians did in the dead continuing as spirits...

And?

And, you have no knowledge of the spiritual realm. If you can't see it with your eyes of flesh...it isn't there.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.​

The natural man is left trying to explain away what he cannot see with his eyes.


There are no souls under the altar..... to the natural man.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:​

It's impossible for the souls of the slain to cry out without a body of flesh...to the natural man.

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?​

The natural man MOCKS "naked spirits" flying around, but forgets angels are ministering spirits what don't have bodies of flesh. Darn naked angels. :chuckle:

 

[clefty]

And, you have no knowledge of the spiritual realm. If you can't see it with your eyes of flesh...it isn't there.

the irony that you must put in the flesh that which is spiritual...

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.​

for you the folktale of spiritual matters and morals MUST BE LITERAL

The revelations of Yahushua given to John MUST BE TANGIBLE...as if it is a literal sword coming out of His mouth...as if you could feed and groom and clean out the stables of the flying horses of the apacolypse...or the throne is for a literal Lamb...

The natural man is left trying to explain away what he cannot see with his eyes.

your argument from silence is exactly an attempt to explain away the spiritual realm...what was a folktale meant to teach forgiveness you and yours MUST have it literal and a foundational teaching to hell...yet another spiritual realm needing real flames and endless punishing...you ADD the physical realm to the spiritual lesson

There are no souls under the altar..... to the natural man.

sure there are...as part of a vision...teaching the spiritual realm.... I mean, you think a literal lamb opened up the seal?

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:​

It's impossible for the souls of the slain to cry out without a body of flesh...to the natural man.

were these spirits in this vision given literal robes to wear? Can spirits wear literal robes? These souls are instructed to keep resting which makes complete sense for one like me who believes the souls are spiritually resting...asleep even.

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?​

how long indeed until judgement Day...His appearing...even this scene in the vision points to that which is still to come...Neither the good nor the evil are rewarded prior that...

The natural man MOCKS "naked spirits" flying around, but forgets angels are ministering spirits what don't have bodies of flesh. Darn naked angels.

HMMM...angels are made that way we are not...in fact believing you could talk to a dead human was punishable by death...but not believing you talked to an angel or demon

:chuckle:

yet ANOTHER example of you having to add something to what is already understood...

 

[way 2 go]

Right you are yours believe as the Egyptians did in the dead continuing as spirits...

And?

you are still not as reliable as a broken clock which is only right twice a day.
you are an imposter and will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

 

[clefty]

you are still not as reliable as a broken clock which is only right twice a day.
you are an imposter and will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Hope you don’t pray like you post...like pagans...repitiously...

That text you post is preceded with

“But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life...all who desire to live godly in Yahushua will suffer persecution” and here you are with false witness and weak attempts to slander me...guess I am blessed as you say all kinds of evil against me falsely...Matt 5:11

You wish to add to the word what is not there that is your thingy...and merely repeating what you wish to insert does not make it so...it remains the dead know nothing...body to dust...spirit returns to Lendor...soul sleeps until the twinkling...

Martha knew that and is why she admitted that she believed in the resurrection at the last day...NOT that her brother was at Abraham’s Bosom Motel...awaiting a transfer to paradise upon Yahushua’s death to wait yet again for this partial reward received prior the judgement to be finally completed at His appearing...

 

[way 2 go]

Hope you don’t pray like you post...like pagans...repitiously...

nothing wrong with repeating
Luk 18:2 He said, "In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man.
Luk 18:3-8 And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, 'Give me justice against my adversary.'

You wish to add to the word what is not there that is your thingy...and merely repeating what you wish to insert does not make it so...it remains the dead know nothing...body to dust...spirit returns to Lendor...soul sleeps until the twinkling...

baseless conjecture

Martha knew that and is why she admitted that she believed in the resurrection at the last day...NOT that her brother was at Abraham’s Bosom Motel...awaiting a transfer to paradise upon Yahushua’s death to wait yet again for this partial reward received prior the judgement to be finally completed at His appearing...

how many times have you repeated this argument and it was wrong the first time you
wrote it & it still wrong


2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

 

[glorydaz]

the irony that you must put in the flesh that which is spiritual...

No, that which is spiritual does not have flesh. You're the one who keeps insisting there is no existence without the flesh. :AMR:

HMMM...angels are made that way we are not...

Contrary, of course, to what our Lord says is true in the resurrection.

Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

[glorydaz]

Martha knew that and is why she admitted that she believed in the resurrection at the last day...NOT that her brother was at Abraham’s Bosom Motel...awaiting a transfer to paradise upon Yahushua’s death to wait yet again for this partial reward received prior the judgement to be finally completed at His appearing...

how many times have you repeated this argument and it was wrong the first time you
wrote it & it still wrong

It cracks me up the way clefty forms his doctrine from Martha's words rather our Lord's words. :chuckle:

 

[clefty]

No, that which is spiritual does not have flesh. You're the one who keeps insisting there is no existence without the flesh. :AMR:

the Word became flesh...not to be eaten every Sunday...

And not the folktale of Lazarus at Abraham’s Bosom motel...

Contrary, of course, to what our Lord says is true in the resurrection.

Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Regarding marriage not in regards to being tangible...Thomas was able to put his finger in Him...they watched Him eat...

That glorious body we receive after judgement and resurrection will be tangible...as His Spirit will return

Remember the formula...body of dust + His spirit breathed in = living Soul and tangible not floating about naked

 

[clefty]

It cracks me up the way clefty forms his doctrine from Martha's words rather our Lord's words. :chuckle:

“I am the resurrection and the life”...granted by His Father...His words...no time spent at Abraham’s Bosom motel...or floating about naked...

 

[clefty]

nothing wrong with repeating

except we were told not to pray as pagans do

Luk 18:2 He said, "In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man.
Luk 18:3-8 And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, 'Give me justice against my adversary.'

is not praying like you are posting

baseless conjecture

dead know nothing Eccl 9:5
body to dust Spirit to Lendor Eccl 12:7

Sleep until resurrection 1 Thess 4:13-17 1 Cor 15:18-20

how many times have you repeated this argument and it was wrong the first time you
wrote it & it still wrong

oh yeah?

2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Written to Timmy who from childhood knew the Holy Scriptures and what it taught about death...Timmy knew about Sadducees not even believing in a resurrection let alone a motel named Abraham’s Bosom...

Timmy knew Pharisees believed in a resurrection but

“As to the question, Who will be raised from death? the answers given vary greatly in rabbinical literature. According to R. Simai (Sifre, Deut. 306) and R. Ḥiyya bar Abba (Gen. R. xiii. 4; comp. Lev. R. xiii. 3), resurrection awaits only the Israelites; according to R. Abbahu, only the just (Ta‘an. 7a); some mention especially the martyrs (Yalḳ. ii. 431, after Tanḥuma). R. Abbahu and R. Eleazar confine resurrection to those that die in the Holy Land; others extend it to such as die outside of Palestine (Ket. 111a). According to R. Jonathan (Pirḳe R. El. 34), the resurrection will be universal, but after judgment the wicked will die a second death and forever, whereas the just will be granted life everlasting (comp. Yalḳ. ii. 428, 499). . . .

At first, it seems, resurrection was regarded as a miraculous boon granted only to the righteous (see Test. Patr., Simeon, 6; Levi, 18; Judah, 25; Zebulun, 10; Vita Adæ et Evæ, 13; comp. Luke 14:14, 20:36). Afterward it came to be regarded as an act of God connected with the last judgment, and therefore universal resurrection of the dead became a doctrine, as expressed in the second benediction of the Shemoneh ‘Esreh (tḥyyt hmtym; Sifre, Deut. 329; Sanh. 92b) (Jewish Encyclopedia, s.v. “

Poor Timmy didn’t know about Abraham’s Bosom motel...

But that the dead know nothing and wait for judgement day

Is WHY Pharisees waited on the Messiah...the judgment/resurrection

 

[way 2 go]

dead know nothing Eccl 9:5

yes under the sun which is here in the physical world
where the laws of thermal dynamics apply .

body to dust Spirit to Lendor Eccl 12:7

bodies and souls go to different places like me & mine have been saying all along

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

Sleep until resurrection 1 Thess 4:13-17 1 Cor 15:18-20

bodies sleep ,we who are are with Christ now our souls continue on with God after death.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Christian who have fallen asleep have not perished they are with Christ because he is risen

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


you are still trying to deceive
2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

 

[glorydaz]

Regarding marriage not in regards to being tangible...Thomas was able to put his finger in Him...they watched Him eat...

And He walked through walls and appeared and disappeared from view...was even unrecognizable to those who knew him best. In other words, his body was some form of spiritual body...even though He had not yet ascended into Heaven.

You'll never understand spiritual things until you have the Spirit dwelling in you.

 

[clefty]

yes under the sun which is here in the physical world
where the laws of thermal dynamics apply .

ask Solomon...

bodies and souls go to different places like me & mine have been saying all along

you conflate stuff...dust for Abraham’s Bosom motel spirt as soul....

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

nothing there about Abraham’s Bosom motel or fire parching tongues...

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

not very know nothing or return to dust or spirit back to Lendor is it?

bodies sleep ,we who are are with Christ

actually they return to dust...sleep was just a comforting concept...so bodies do NOT sleep they return to dust in this thermal dynamic law abiding world

now our souls continue on with God after death.

right...after judgement and resurrection day appearing and twinkling...Paul did say he would rather be absent and to be there...did NOT SAY that was IMMEDIATE...or absent is to be there...

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

and when literally and actually are we judged worthy for that? As naked souls floating around waiting to be judged...what? If souls are there they were already judged...why even need bodies?

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

either live or die but live WITH HIM...rather absent the body and to be with Him...

Christian who have fallen asleep have not perished

nope...resurrection day is coming

they are with Christ because he is risen

Stephen saw Him up there nobody else..

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Dead rise when? Are with Him NOT NAKED but further clothed with heavenly buildings...AS HE IS...tangible to Thomas and able to eat food...glorified...that resurrection day...and the dead rise first have not already risen...the first time having been as merely souls...

ONE RESURRECTION...not an installment plan

Living Souls become when? Need what? Body + Spirit = living soul...

1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

relax He rose...

1 Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 BUT each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, WHEN HE COMES, those who belong to Him.

How are the dead raised? Paul is detailed and NOTHING about the soul returning from floating about naked in heave...to reunite with the body...

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead...the body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body.

Just like His spiritual body, the One Thomas touched and watched eat food...

you are still trying to deceive
2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

lol...you false accuse...you withstand Moses...

Timmy learned from the OT...where Sadduccees or Pharisees dont find Souls floating about...and His disciples accepted Lazarus was dead not with immortal soul...

And Martha...dear Martha knew to wait for the resurrection day...

 

[way 2 go]

“I am the resurrection and the life”...granted by His Father...His words...no time spent at Abraham’s Bosom motel...or floating about naked...

wrong again deceiver

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)