Study a bit and you will be able to extricate your foot from your mouth.
SOME PROOF OF CHRIST'S DIETY AND BEING THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS.
- Thread starter Grosnick Marowbe
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Study a bit and you will be able to extricate your foot from your mouth.
musterion
Well-known member
If Rome invented it (and I know that's what you mean by 'harlot'), why are we able to substantiate it from the Bible anyway?
genuineoriginal
New member
Why did you choose to believe in and defend a false doctrine for forty years?
Isn't what the scriptures say good enough for you without adding to it?
genuineoriginal
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No, you do not.
You insist that Christ is God Himself instead of what the scriptures state about Him being the Son of God.
genuineoriginal
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You aren't able to substantiate it from the Bible, which is why the controversy has lasted 1700 years despite all efforts to suppress it.
musterion
Well-known member
Is to accept the concept of the Trinity as biblical an indicator that one is not saved?
musterion
Well-known member
I haven't tried to suppress anything.
genuineoriginal
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The doctrine of the Trinity was formulated by the Roman Catholic Church in 325 CE.
While many Protestants believe that the Roman Catholic church is the Mother of Harlots described in Revelation 17, I disagree that the Roman Catholic church is the Mother of Harlots.
The text clearly refers to a huge secular city, not a religious denomination.
genuineoriginal
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I am pretty sure you can be saved whether you believe in the Trinity or disbelieve in it.
It really seems like a mistaken belief that will not lead to damnation, unlike some of the other false doctrines of mainstream Christian denominations.
musterion
Well-known member
So why you ride it so hard every chance you get? Seems...odd, if it's not a salvational issue.
keypurr
Well-known member
No, I do not deny that Jesus is the Christ of God so I would not expect you to.
But why don't you answer the questions?
Weather he is created or not he is still my Lord, he still has the glory that his God has given him.
Being a creation does not belittle him in any way. God has made him Lord, King of Kings. God has given him the power. Thats good enough for me. There is only one true God friend.
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keypurr
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Same old story, they have no understanding of scripture. I am proud to be in your company friend. Right or wrong at least we think for ourselves.
musterion
Well-known member
Follow up question.
If it doesn't impact salvation, what exactly is the worst/most wrong thing about being trinitarian, other than it's just false? Does it slander God? Take glory from Him? Is it idolatry? What is it about it, specifically, that drives you and others here to want to see all trins come out of it?
genuineoriginal
New member
It is a Biblical issue and I often argue strongly when someone teaches doctrines that are not taught in the Bible.
I have found that many Christians are taught to reject what is written in the Bible in order to believe in the doctrines of men.
Belief in the Trinity doctrine is held forth by many Christians as definitive proof that someone is a follower of Jesus Christ.
They slander anyone that does not accept their variation of the Trinity doctrine as a non-believer.
I am a believer in Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the only begotten Son of God, sent from God, who has been given all power to judge and grant eternal life by God, and in whom God is well pleased.
My doctrines come from what the Bible deems important based on the number of times that an idea is repeated.
The Bible repeatedly claims that Jesus is the Son of God and that God is the Father of Jesus, so this repetition must mean something more than the few possibly misunderstood passages that might indicate that someone thinks Jesus is God Himself.
People insisting that it is more important to believe Jesus is God Himself (Trinity or Binity) than to believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God is contrary to scripture.
My argument is always what does the scriptures really say about it and not what can some random proof-texts be made to say.
genuineoriginal
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Belief in one non-Biblical doctrine leads to belief in other non-Biblical doctrines, such as Original Sin, OSAS, T.U.L.I.P., veneration of Mary, etc., which can lead to damnation.
Blind acceptance of non-Biblical doctrines prevent people from coming to the knowledge of the truth.
God sometimes winks at ignorance.
Yes, but not much, since God will be allowing Jesus to rule the kingdom in His place and is allowing Jesus to handle the names in the book of life.
The mistake is as harmful or harmless as someone thinking Joseph was Pharaoh himself because of the power Pharaoh gave Joseph in Genesis 41:40.
Not quite, since idolatry usually requires a physical idol.
There are many devout believers in the Trinity that are able to admit that the Trinity is not a Biblical doctrine.
If someone is able to honestly study the Bible for what it says and still believes in the Trinity despite knowing it is not taught in the Bible, I have no problem with that.
What I have a problem with is the dishonest people that claim the Bible teaches the Trinity, when it does not.
The doctrine of the Trinity came about because many people have an inability to believe that God would give the kind of power Jesus displayed to a man, so they reasoned amongst themselves that Jesus had to be a god, but that conflicted with the scriptures that appear to state that God is the only god, so the doctrine of the Binity was created to explain how Jesus could be a god without ending up with more than one god. The addition of the Holy Spirit to the Binity doctrine came a short time later as an after thought and formed the Trinity doctrine.
How the argument evolved has been lost over time to the unreasoning demand that people believe in the Trinity without going through the logical steps needed to identify why they should believe in it.
Wrong!!
Early Trinitarian Quotes (From CARM.org)
It took a while for the Christian Church to finally figure out what the Trinity was. But, by God's grace, the Church has defined it. However, some say that the Trinity was never taught until the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. Not so. Following are some samples of quotes taken from early church leaders regarding the plural nature of God.
Polycarp (70-155/160) - Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
"O Lord God almighty...I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).
Justin Martyr (100?-165?) - He was a Christian apologist and martyr.
"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).
Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117) - Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).
"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)
Irenaeus (115-190) - As a boy, he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.
"The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: ...one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all...'" (Against Heresies X.l)
How can you be saved if you have an improper understanding of the nature of God?
genuineoriginal
New member
The reason it took so long is because the doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Bible.
Simple, isn't it.
But he is not a creation.
John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
genuineoriginal
New member
You can be saved even with your non-Biblical understanding of the nature of God because God makes allowances for human failure.
Now, if you can show me where you think the Bible says we must understand the nature of God (as opposed to fearing Him, worshipping Him, and obeying Him) to be saved, then please go right ahead and post the scriptures.
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