SOME PROOF OF CHRIST'S DIETY AND BEING THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS.

[Bright Raven]

Of GOD, not the limit of GOD or the wholeness of GOD until resurrection and return, or leaving the physical body of man, leaving only the Holy Spirit. The Christ was of GOD, the man was of man.

Christ is man wholly under GOD, indeed not God in and of itself.

It is written that the second coming will be of a multitude. He will not be hidden, but everywhere. This is man wholly freed of the bindings of flesh and only for God's will. Not for self want, or attainment. The way is shown and made possible by Jesus's teachings, example, self sacrifice for the will of the father for the sake of man. Praise Jesus the Christ of GOD. I thank Christ for showing the way to the father for all who truly believe 100% and as such, conduct ones self accordingly, with 100%Faith that the word of God is true.

May be ranting.

Sorry, I kinda get goin and don't stop.

With humility and respect,

Peace

If He is not God wholly, how do you reconcile these verses;

John 1:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Deity of Jesus Christ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 8:58 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John 20:26-28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

26 After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.”

27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Colossians 1:16-19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

1 John 1:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life—

2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

 

[Bright Raven]

Indeed I do. Not the fullness of GOD though, as we cannot fully perceive such within the confines of human understanding. So to assert such is faulty. I dare not blasphem against the Holy Spirit. Indeed it is God as we can perceive it at his will by way of the blessed Christ. It is Man that is not GOD or equivalent to GOD in any way, yet formed by GOD with his light/word/force and void, the deep.

Humbly,

Peace

How can you say He is God, yet not the fullness thereof. It does not matter whether you fully understand or not. That is where faith kicks in. You can't blaspheme the Spirit. That was a unique sin that could only be accomplished by the Pharisees. That which comes close to it today is the denial of Christ. Jesus is God incarnate. That is truth.
Respectfully,
Raven

 

[genuineoriginal]

How can you believe a person who can impart eternal life to others is not God?

Jesus has the power to raise up the dead.

John 5:21 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.​

God gave this same power to others:

Elijah raised the son of the Zarephath widow from the dead (1 Kings 17:17-22).

Elisha raised the son of the Shunammite woman from the dead (2 Kings 4:32-35).

Peter raised Dorcas from the dead (Acts 9:36-41).

Eutychus was raised from the dead by Paul (Acts 20:9, 10).

The additional power given to Jesus that these others were not given is the power to write in names and blot out names from the book of life.

God gives eternal life to those people that have their names written in the book of life, so giving Jesus the power to write in names in the book of life has the same effect as giving Jesus the power to give eternal life to another person.

How much more power than that do you think Jesus will need?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I hate to be the one to say it but, Grosnick Marowbe is nearly always wrong. Grosnick Marowbe is
kind of an ego-maniac who thinks highly of his false doctrines. Grosnick Marowbe is a
poor soul. Not to mention (but I will anyway) Grosnick Marowbe is monumentally
unlikable. Grosnick Marowbe is a poor soul.

FTFY, and you are welcome

 

[genuineoriginal]

Wakeup Pops, neither one of them believes in the deity of Jesus Christ. Therefore, non-believers by default

The Bible never says we must believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, so you are teaching a false doctrine.

The Bible says we must believe Jesus is the Messiah (Christ).

John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

Everyone that believes Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) is by definition a believer.

1 John 5:1 1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.​

So, do you believe Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) sent by God?

 

[genuineoriginal]

That is the question at hand. Do you believe in the doctrine of the Trinity?

The several doctrines of the Trinity are not from the Bible, so it does not matter whether I believe in the same one you believe in or any of the others.

Did you get that?

It does not matter.

Until you can prove from the Bible that belief in a doctrine of the Trinity is required to be saved, you are merely teaching a false doctrine.

Why would you want to teach a false doctrine instead of teaching scripture?

 

[genuineoriginal]

When worshipping God, we must understand the nature of who He is, a trinity.

Please provide the chapter and verse that says we must believe God is a trinity to worship Him.

Or, you may want to teach the way Paul did.

Acts 17:22-31 22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. 24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.​

Paul did not teach the Trinity.

Paul taught that God that made the world and all things in it would judge the world by the righteousness of a man that He ordained.

 

[Bright Raven]

The Bible never says we must believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, so you are teaching a false doctrine.

The Bible says we must believe Jesus is the Messiah (Christ).

John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

Everyone that believes Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) is by definition a believer.

1 John 5:1 1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.​

So, do you believe Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) sent by God?

We must believe in Jesus for who He is, God incarnate.

John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 1:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

With all due respect sir, if you do not believe in the Trinity/Jesus is God, You are a non-believer.

 

[Bright Raven]

Please provide the chapter and verse that says we must believe God is a trinity to worship Him.

Or, you may want to teach the way Paul did.

Acts 17:22-31 22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. 24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.​

Paul did not teach the Trinity.

Paul taught that God that made the world and all things in it would judge the world by the righteousness of a man that He ordained.

He taught that Jesus was God. Is that close enough?

Colossians 1:16-19 King James Version (KJV)

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

 

[genuineoriginal]

With all due respect sir, if you do not believe in the Trinity/Jesus is God, You are a non-believer.

For 1700 years believers in the Trinity have sought in vain to find any verses that claimed a person must believe in the Trinity to be saved.

You are still unable to find anywhere in the Bible where it states that you have to believe in the Trinity and you never will find them.

That means you are spreading a false doctrine.

 

[jamie]

Jesus has the power to raise up the dead.

Not a one of the people you named have been given eternal life, at least not yet.

 

[genuineoriginal]

He taught that Jesus was God. Is that close enough?

Colossians 1:16-19 King James Version (KJV)

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Taking verses out of context does not help your argument.

In context of the rest of the book, Paul did not teach that Jesus was God, he taught that God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:3 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,​

Colossians 1:12-13 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:​

Colossians 2:12 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.​

Colossians 3:1 1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.​

Colossians 3:17 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Not a one of the people you named have been given eternal life, at least not yet.

When Jesus returns, He will bring the reward with Him.

 

[Bright Raven]

Taking verses out of context does not help your argument.

In context of the rest of the book, Paul did not teach that Jesus was God, he taught that God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:3 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,​

Colossians 1:12-13 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:​

Colossians 2:12 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.​

Colossians 3:1 1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.​

Colossians 3:17 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.​

Respectfully, you are an non-believer. What is a Christian Other? He taught that Jesus created the heavens and the earth period, end of story. Jesus is God. You may want to read the TOL Statement of Faith.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Respectfully, you are an non-believer.

You do not have any respect for what is written in the Bible if you continue to make that claim.

What is a Christian Other?

In my case, it is a Christian who believes the words of the Bible over the doctrines of men.

 

[Bright Raven]

You do not have any respect for what is written in the Bible if you continue to make that claim.

In my case, it is a Christian who believes the words of the Bible over the doctrines of men.

I think you are confused. Why are you on this website if you do not believe the tenants upon which it was founded? Read the Statement of Faith and then tell me that you agree with the tenants of this site.

 

[keypurr]

John 4:22 You Samaritans (cults, Unitarians etc. by extension) worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the main thing; get wisdom; and with all your getting (though it cost all you have) get understanding.

Matthew 23:3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

If you can't give it away, you are correct that I couldn't buy it either. Worse? You can't pay people to 'like' Arian/Unitarian. "If I am wrong" is huge for both of us. At stake is the God we worship as well as the way we worship Him. "Depart from me, I never knew you" is on the table for not knowing Him, but more importantly, Him not knowing us. Remember, you are on a triune board causing a stink. I am not on a Unitarian/Arian board, nor am I in the minority. More so, you Arians/Unitarians do not even agree with one another and are often trying to 'correct' one another here on TOL. This kind of thing doesn't happen regarding a triune view. We discuss it, but we don't go about trying to assert what either an education OR what we 'feel' the Lord taught us against another.

Arians/Unitarians have walked a troublesome walk on and off TOL. I genuinely do not think God will or can correct the Church (if we were wrong) with such a contentious lot. You should really rethink the logistics of your self-appointed reasons for being on TOL as well as the manner in which you shove this ill-mannered 'revelation' of yours. It has every earmark of the cults that have preceded you in the endeavor including being 'wrong' let alone contentious as well as arrogant/prideful in conveyance, and sadly, without the tools necessary 'to even know' what you are talking about. English, for me, is a requirement. A good handle on language, is essential and necessary. There is no reason to be an Arian/Unitarian on TOL if you lack those because you are greatly against those who do possess those abilities. They also, necessarily, point to whether or not you can be seen to 'reasonably' understand scriptures as they are given. Without it, it is just guys being a pain but with no credentials, given by God (doubtful) or otherwise. The Apostles each wrote books. You? :nono: They weren't that unlearned!

You have a huge problem Lon, your a bigot and you can not get over it. Any one who thinks in a different manner than you is wrong. You do not seem to understand what Christ teaches in scripture, your ideas were pounded into you all your life. To say that your sources are or could be wrong, is unthinkable. Any forum is suppose to be an exchange of ideas. TOL is such a place, its a good place to test your faith. Defend what you think, share thoughts. You keep saying that TOL is no place for folks who do not fully agree with the owners. Mr Knight must feel that your wrong. We can learn a lot from each other if we open our minds and hearts to the knowledge that each brings to the table.

You do not have it Lon, your smart, well versed but you do not have what was given to me. I used to think that I had it long before I got it. You will not understand what the true IT is until you let go of the stuff you have learned and open up to the spirit of truth.

I wish you well Lon, but you need more that what my prayers for you are doing.

 

[keypurr]

Because his claim is the same as the Jehovah's Witnesses that Jesus is a god created by the one true God.

Why do you say that is wrong?
Does it really take away from the Glory he had with is Father?
Is he any less our Lord if he is a creation?

Oh my friend, your being led to a very rocky road if you can not see what some folks are telling you. Our early church father have done a great job of misrepresenting what the scriptures really say. God created his exact image in Heb 1:3, you should deal with it.

 

[Bright Raven]

Why do you say that is wrong?
Does it really take away from the Glory he had with is Father?
Is he any less our Lord if he is a creation?

Oh my friend, your being led to a very rocky road if you can not see what some folks are telling you. Our early church father have done a great job of misrepresenting what the scriptures really say. God created his exact image in Heb 1:3, you should deal with it.

Yes the Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult and do not much like you believe in the deity of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. That my friend is huge. Do you actually expect me to deny who my Lord is. No, not even close. I can't tell you. But you will have believe when He tells you.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I think you are confused. Why are you on this website if you do not believe the tenants upon which it was founded? Read the Statement of Faith and then tell me that you agree with the tenants of this site.

I agree with what Paul states he believes.

Acts 24:14-16 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.​

As to the TOL Statement of Faith, I see no problem debating whether the Bible teaches agreement with it as a requirement for salvation.

You are hung up on whether I believe the doctrines you believe.
In your mind, if I don't state I believe the same doctrines you believe then you automatically start calling me a non-believer.
What the Bible says means nothing to your argument.

I am debating what the Bible actually teaches.
This means that it does not matter what you believe or what I believe, the only thing that matters is what the Bible teaches.
I could believe in the Trinity or I could believe in the Binity, or I could believe in the Unity and it would have absolutely no effect on my arguments.
My arguments are based solely on what the Bible teaches, not on any extra-Biblical doctrines.

There is a huge difference in these approaches.