Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

[glorydaz]

So specific scriptures that tell us the Ten Commandments were abolished,

Not true.

the ordinances were nailed to the cross,

You don't know what ordinances are...you've made that clear.

the old covenant is obsolete and replaced.... aren't good enough for you.

Your understanding is obsolete.

You don't understand the meaning of "Love God" and "Love thy neighbor" to understand why you separate laws aren't needed against idolatry and murder, but you do have nonsense smack talk. Not worth engaging. Ignore list.

:listen: Rossenritter is competing with Truster for most people on the IGNORE LIST.


Maybe that's the "Love thy neighbor" she's talking about. :idunno:

 

[Danoh]

Except that your story is entirely irrelevant.

"Law" and "ordinance" are synonyms in scripture and not subject to peculiar redefinition in analogy to the U.S. state or federal criminal code, and the context of the passage in question is most especially not written in the sense of seeking exceptions. The context of Colossians 2:14 defines "ordinances" for us as including meats, drinks, holy days, new moons, and sabbath days.

Colossians 2:14-16 KJV
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

So is verse 16 listing things that ARE examples of ordinances, or things that are NOT examples of ordinances? I am guessing you are claiming the latter, because otherwise you would be admitting that both holy days (high sabbaths) and sabbath days (weekly sabbaths) were nailed to the cross. But what saith the scripture?

Exodus 12:14 KJV
(14) And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Exodus 12:17 KJV
(17) And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

The holy days are certainly ordinances, and "meat" and "drink' and "holy days" and "new moons" and "sabbaths" are all part of the same group already generally referred to as "ordinances" in Col 2:16.

We've already covered that ground; ordinance does not mean "a requirement of debt" and includes the annual sabbaths (the holy days) which are grouped together with "meats" and "sabbaths" as being blotted out...

Most within (but not all, and Clefty does not hold to) Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, hold this same view on that much of your post.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Why?

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Of "all this law" the writer of Hebrews writes...

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

While Paul, also notes a connection between Israel's Law and its Ordinances within Israel's Mosaic Service of God.

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Thus, the following, in light of the above...

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Of course, Paul is speaking there of both formerly lost Jews and Gentiles, this side of...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Notice...

Formerly lost Gentiles, this side of Paul's words in Romans 3:9-11:

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Formerly lost Jews, this side of Paul's words in Romans 3:9-11:

2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

While I'm at it - Colossians is a sister epistle to Ephesians, and vice-versa. Each very often shedding light on the actually intended sense of the other.

Just as it is through Paul's words in Romans thru Philemon that Paul's words are understood - not, say, through Luke's words, in Acts.

And certainly not through super imposing modern word imagery on words used within a two thousand year old narrative.

Nehemiah 8:8 is a key principle here.

 

[Danoh]

Jacob, you are in the same boat with John W. and others. You are in denial of what the scriptures are saying. The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus abolished the law. If you cannot believe the Bible then you are like a ship without a rudder. You, John W. and others will go into the judgment and will be judged and condemned by the law, simply because you are under it.

No, Robert, what was abolished was only that part of the law that was for righteousness.

All the rest of it was not abolished, for all the rest of it identifies the nation Israel as the people of God - His witnesses - among the Nations.

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Though said witness, is presently on hold, Romans 11:25-29.

At the same time, it is that part of the law that was for righteousness that to this day, within the preaching of the righteousness of God without the law, identifies sin as sin, in the person one is preaching the gospel of Christ, to.

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Acts 17:11, 12.

 

[clefty]

So specific scriptures that tell us the Ten Commandments were abolished,

“Think not...!” You were instructed...and yet you do...and all 10 (and more) were kept in the demonstration of the new covenant lifestyle BEFORE it was signed and sealed. NOW NO CHANGES ALLOWED

the ordinances were nailed to the cross,

so when “thief” was nailed above the head of the criminal everyone else is now able to steal? You know...because the “no stealing” law is nailed to the cross...?

the old covenant is obsolete and replaced....

yup by a new one taught and demonstrated by the testator Who upon dying killed signed and sealed it...NO CHANGES ALLOWED...you do know “WWJD?” is quite popular among Christians yes? Because they desire to live more like Him not less...

aren't good enough for you.

what’s not good enough is your jewish fable and false witness that He changed the customs of Moses.

You don't understand the meaning of "Love God"

sure I do...to love Yah is to keep His will and commandments...to worship Him AS HE INSTRUCTED...and not with some counterfeit golden calf “no law left for us”

and "Love thy neighbor"

which is another OT Law found in the NT...and detailed as to what that love looks like...NOT like the world’s love BTW

to understand why you separate laws aren't needed against idolatry and murder,

and yet they are also listed in the NT...

Take for instance cannibalism...there isn’t even a “THOU SHALT NOT” against cannabalism in the OT and yet it is taught and understood that it is evil in the OT...but that cannibalism is bad is NOT taught in the NT...despite most Christians claiming all flesh is clean to eat...do you do it? I hope not...hopefully that falls under WWJD?...

but you do have nonsense smack talk.

LOL...shout louder maybe your god is sleeping or on a trip...at least I don’t talk trash about other posters behind their back...that is false witnessing...oh wait you allow yourself to do that

Not worth engaging.

what you and I find worthy is indeed quite different...I will save my pearls

Ignore list.

lol...take your ball and go home...playing with kids that don’t respect rules isn’t much fun anyway...but please remember it ends with “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua”...they WANT TO because they love Him and because they were saved by Him and are now led by the Spirit to do so

 

[clefty]

Most within (but not all, and Clefty does not hold to) Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, hold this same view on that much of your post.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Why?

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Of "all this law" the writer of Hebrews writes...

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

While Paul, also notes a connection between Israel's Law and its Ordinances within Israel's Mosaic Service of God.

Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Thus, the following, in light of the above...

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Of course, Paul is speaking there of both formerly lost Jews and Gentiles, this side of...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Notice...

Formerly lost Gentiles, this side of Paul's words in Romans 3:9-11:

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Formerly lost Jews, this side of Paul's words in Romans 3:9-11:

2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

While I'm at it - Colossians is a sister epistle to Ephesians, and vice-versa. Each very often shedding light on the actually intended sense of the other.

Just as it is through Paul's words in Romans thru Philemon that Paul's words are understood - not, say, through Luke's words, in Acts.

And certainly not through super imposing modern word imagery on words used within a two thousand year old narrative.

Nehemiah 8:8 is a key principle here.

There is Law and there are its ordinances...

there are ordinances FOR YOU...to assist in your abundant living and worship (BECAUSE you are saved already, mind you, and NOT to earn salvation...but to maintain your righteousness)...

And there are ordinances AGAINST you...your trespasses...THIS ordinance/ticket/debt/bill/invoice was nailed “taken care of” NOT THE FEE

 

[clefty]

No, Robert, what was abolished was only that part of the law that was [/b]for righteousness.[/b]

I hope when you say “for righteousness” you mean to maintain it yes? And NOT to earn it...

It was FAITH first then works...they were saved from Egypt and THEN given the Law

And they were saved not for anything they did but for a promise made to their father...they just had to believe they were Abraham’s descendants...and because they were saved and part of the promise they of course WANTED to do ALL they could to remain in the camp...

“Not for your sake oh Israel but for My Name’s sake...” see? It is NOT what they did or did not do but what He promised for them...if they obeyed they remained part of that promise

What is central here is that jews were ALWAYS and ONLY descendants of a PROMISE...

That their father was Abraham and was only out of a PROMISE made to him and a MIRACLE birth is key...Abraham and Sarah’s bloodline was DONE...she was no longer able to make blood descendants by natural birth and thus any descendant NOW was by PROMISE and not blood...

Jews “forget” this and lay claim by their works...

We however know Israel was ALWAYS and ONLY spiritual and by faith...NEVER earned or inherited by blood but received and retained by blood demanded...HIS BLOOD

 

[Robert Pate]

Spiritually speaking, there are only two places that you can be in life.

1. "In Christ".

2. Under the law.

Those that are "In Christ" are eternally saved. God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. They are not under the law, nor are they subject to it.

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter" (law). Romans 7:6.

It is because God sees them "In Christ" that he seals them with his Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership. To be "In Christ" means that all that Jesus is and all that Jesus did for your justification and your salvation is yours by faith. In our name and on our behalf Jesus has perfected us. We are now dead and our real life (spiritual life) is in heaven with Christ, Colossians 3:3.

We who are "In Christ" are not concerned about the law. We believe that, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4. In Jesus Christ the law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18 and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. We have entered into his rest, Hebrews 10:4.

Those that are subject to the law and live by the law are under the judgment of God and condemnation, "There is no condemnation to those who are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. The law demands perfection, no one has it to offer. Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Trying to please God by following the law is to make Paul a liar. This is why those who uphold the law and live by it are under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

Living by laws, rules and religion is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Jesus is our justifier, Romans 3:26, not the law. The purpose of the law is to reveal the holiness of God and the sinfulness of man, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:10.

The law will not make one righteous. The law will cause sin, Romans 7:7-12. Those that lived by laws and rules are the ones that crucified Jesus Christ.

 

[musterion]

(BECAUSE you are saved already, mind you, and NOT to earn salvation...but to maintain your righteousness)...

Foolishness.

Your problem is twofold:

1) Maintaining righteousness assumes it can be lost, which means it must be earned. Losing one's righteousness, once obtained in Christ, therefore has to equal losing one's salvation and becoming lost again. "Maintaining righteousness" = maintaining salvation, no two ways about it.

2) It's not even the believer's righteousness in any case -- it is CHRIST'S righteousness, which is credited to the believer by virtue of being identified with and in Him.

Heed Philippians 3:9

In and of himself, the believer HAS and IS nothing. Paul said so.

That means the only righteousness one could possibly have of himself can only be based upon a principle of law -- righteousness earned by good behavior. One does not need faith for that, only effort and works. That's what you're preaching but you are so blind you can't see when you're contradicting yourself.

 

[john w]

Spiritually speaking, there are only two places that you can be in life.

1. "In Christ".

2. Under the law.

Those that are "In Christ" are eternally saved. God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. They are not under the law, nor are they subject to it.

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter" (law). Romans 7:6.

It is because God sees them "In Christ" that he seals them with his Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership. To be "In Christ" means that all that Jesus is and all that Jesus did for your justification and your salvation is yours by faith. In our name and on our behalf Jesus has perfected us. We are now dead and our real life (spiritual life) is in heaven with Christ, Colossians 3:3.

We who are "In Christ" are not concerned about the law. We believe that, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4. In Jesus Christ the law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18 and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. We have entered into his rest, Hebrews 10:4.

Those that are subject to the law and live by the law are under the judgment of God and condemnation, "There is no condemnation to those who are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. The law demands perfection, no one has it to offer. Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Trying to please God by following the law is to make Paul a liar. This is why those who uphold the law and live by it are under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

Living by laws, rules and religion is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Jesus is our justifier, Romans 3:26, not the law. The purpose of the law is to reveal the holiness of God and the sinfulness of man, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:10.

The law will not make one righteous. The law will cause sin, Romans 7:7-12. Those that lived by laws and rules are the ones that crucified Jesus Christ.

Spam, diversion, create a moving target, deception, creating a false dichotomy, in devilish design, wicked redefining of biblical words, as he asserts that the law must not exist, to be delivered from it, as his demonic "logic" erodes his mind, and thus he concludes, on record, that if anyone, such as myself, asserts that if the good, spiritual, holy law of God exists, those are under it, and assert that the law makes them righteous. And all the while, he, on record, asserts that his "Jesus" became righteous, by keeping the law, and that 100% keeping the law, is imputed to us, making us righteous("vicarious law keeping"), thus making the Lord Jesus Christ's death, in vain.
Answer the question, Pate:

How can Christ die for your/our sins, our sin debt, if the law was deleted, eliminated,destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago, and thus there is no transgression, sin debt, since there is no law. Go ahead, spammer, Tell, all of TOL. And tell all of TOL, why Christ died for our sin debt,and, again, how is that possible, since there is no law, according to your magic wand sorcery, deleting it, which spells out, defines, sin. Tell us how you commit sins/transgressions, which you admit that you do, if, as you say, there is no more holy, good, spiritual law of God, that defines, marks them, as such.


ANSWER, Pate-NOW.





2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV

to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Go ahead, Pate-tell us how we/you have trespasses, "their trespasses," "post cross," if there can be no trespasses, since their is no law, as it was destroyed, according to you, 2000+ years ago, at the cross, defining trespasses/sins/sin debt.


Colossians 2:13 KJV

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Go ahead, Pate-tell us how we/you have trespasses, "their trespasses," "post cross," if there can be no trespasses, since their is no law, as it was destroyed, according to you, 2000+ years ago, at the cross, defining trespasses/sins/sin debt.



You won't, after years of being asked this, by myself, numerous members of the boc-just more copy'npaste, word-for-word spam, posting verses in isolation, deleting hundreds of verses, with no explanation, and marking everyone on TOL, as not having the Holy Spirit, since they disagree, and despise, your satanic assertion, and blustering that you are the only one that preaches "the Gospel," and believes the bible, on this site.



Deceiver, rejecting that Christ died for our sins.

Tell us Pate-HOW CAN CHRIST DIE FOR OUR/YOUR SINS/SIN DEBT, if there is no holy law of God defining sin, and thus there can be no sin debt?


Silencio, as the devil has a gag order on him.

 

[john w]

The law will not make one righteous. The law will cause sin, Romans 7:7-12. Those that lived by laws and rules are the ones that crucified Jesus Christ.

You say that it does, habitual liar, as you pervert the gospel of Christ, on record, asserting that the law makes for righteousness, despite your denials,on orders from your father, as you satanically, again, assert the "vicarious law keeping" doctrine of demons-ON RECORD:

The tip off is that you don't believe in the vicarious life of Christ for the believer.

=he asserts that the law makes us righteous, as he spams that the Lord Jesus Christ became righteous, by keeping the law, on earth, and that His "walk" on earth,in the law, "100%," not the dbr, and not the righteousness of God, who is the Lord Jesus Christ,apart from the law, is imputed to us; thus, Christ died for nothing-ON RECORD.

 

[clefty]

Foolishness.

Your problem is twofold:

1) Maintaining righteousness assumes it can be lost,

ask the jews...they assumed same as you...and lost it anyway...

which means it must be earned.

oh? So I inherit a house...please tell the government your idea

Losing one's righteousness, once obtained in Christ, therefore has to equal losing one's salvation and becoming lost again. "Maintaining righteousness" = maintaining salvation, no two ways about it.

Right just like the jews thought they had it forever and well...Paul said clearly they were cut off and we replaced those branches but do NOT boast pretend and be arrogant as if you cant be cut off...cuz well...then you will be...the irony...

2) It's not even the believer's righteousness in any case -- it is CHRIST'S righteousness, which is credited to the believer by virtue of being identified with and in Him.

Heed Philippians 3:9

yup...faith with HIS works is alive in Him...duh...but no it aint just LORD! LORD! and NOT doing His Father’s will...you read what happened to those people

In and of himself, the believer HAS and IS nothing. Paul said so.

oh I agree and is why IN HIM believers are shown what to do SINCE WE LOVE HIM

That means the only righteousness one could possibly have of himself can only be based upon a principle of law -- righteousness earned by good behavior. One does not need faith for that, only effort and works. That's what you're preaching but you are so blind you can't see when you're contradicting yourself.

giggle...righteousness you were given is NOT EARNED by maintaining it...

They were saved from Egypt before they were given the Law...duh...and once saved they were given a means by which they could retain it...HalleluYah

But like you jews became so confident in their once saved always saved they well...you know...lost it...


“And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.”

Maybe you dont think this applies to you cuz you MAD...

 

[clefty]

Spiritually speaking, there are only two places that you can be in life.

1. "In Christ".

2. Under the law.

Those that are "In Christ" are eternally saved. God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. They are not under the law, nor are they subject to it.

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter" (law). Romans 7:6.

It is because God sees them "In Christ" that he seals them with his Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. The Holy Spirit is God's mark of ownership. To be "In Christ" means that all that Jesus is and all that Jesus did for your justification and your salvation is yours by faith. In our name and on our behalf Jesus has perfected us. We are now dead and our real life (spiritual life) is in heaven with Christ, Colossians 3:3.

We who are "In Christ" are not concerned about the law. We believe that, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness" Romans 10:4. In Jesus Christ the law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18 and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. We have entered into his rest, Hebrews 10:4.

Those that are subject to the law and live by the law are under the judgment of God and condemnation, "There is no condemnation to those who are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. The law demands perfection, no one has it to offer. Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Trying to please God by following the law is to make Paul a liar. This is why those who uphold the law and live by it are under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

Living by laws, rules and religion is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Jesus is our justifier, Romans 3:26, not the law. The purpose of the law is to reveal the holiness of God and the sinfulness of man, "By the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:10.

The law will not make one righteous. The law will cause sin, Romans 7:7-12. Those that lived by laws and rules are the ones that crucified Jesus Christ.

How about this order:

1: under the law

Which is why we wish to be

2: IN HIM

And wish to remain or...see #1

 

[Rosenritter]

Most within (but not all, and Clefty does not hold to) Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, hold this same view on that much of your post.

I've gathered that there is some difference of opinion within MAD circles concerning this, when I saw you and Glory openly disagree on whether the Old Covenant and its the commandments in stone were abolished or not. What I do not know is to what degree each of these sides is represented within the overall "MAD" umbrella (who is expressing the majority and minority opinions here?)

Regardless of MAD or SAD or HAPPY or whatever, I suspect that this is often misunderstood as even children's books will say "The Ten Commandments are God's laws for us ..." (we even have these books received as a gift).

 

[clefty]

I've gathered that there is some difference of opinion within MAD circles concerning this, when I saw you and Glory openly disagree on whether the Old Covenant and its the commandments in stone were abolished or not. What I do not know is to what degree each of these sides is represented within the overall "MAD" umbrella (who is expressing the majority and minority opinions here?)

Regardless of MAD or SAD or HAPPY or whatever, I suspect that this is often misunderstood as even children's books will say "The Ten Commandments are God's laws for us ..." (we even have these books received as a gift).

As I said the state of Alabama recently voted to affirm its Christianity by voting to display the 10 commandments on all state property.

And for something that you claim no longer exists...historically there seems to be a lot of interest in it...

Even just in its numbering:

LXX: Septuagint, generally followed by Orthodox Christians.
P: Philo, same as the Septuagint, but with the prohibitions on killing and adultery reversed.
S: Samaritan Pentateuch, with an additional commandment about Mount Gerizim as 10th.
T: Jewish Talmud, makes the "prologue" the first "saying" or "matter" and combines the prohibition on worshiping deities other than Yahweh with the prohibition on idolatry.
A: Augustine follows the Talmud in combining verses 3–6, but omits the prologue as a commandment and divides the prohibition on coveting in two and following the word order of Deuteronomy 5:21 rather than Exodus 20:17.
C: Catechism of the Catholic Church, largely follows Augustine.
L: Lutherans follow Luther's Large Catechism, which follows Augustine but subordinates the prohibition of images to the sovereignty of God in the First Commandment[35] and uses the word order of Exodus 20:17 rather than Deuteronomy 5:21 for the ninth and tenth commandments.
R: Reformed Christians follow John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, which follows the Septuagint; this system is also used in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.[36]

See the chart at

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

Someone please let them know it no longer even matters...

I mean someone not ignored...

 

[Robert Pate]

The Gospel is that work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf. Not only does the work of Christ save us, it also justifies us, Romans 3:26.

In our name and on our behalf Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil for us.
In our name and on our behalf Jesus has fulfilled God's Holy Law for us.
In our name and on our behalf Jesus has abolished the law for us.

Jesus was not only God with us, Jesus was also God for us. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand in God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we have been sanctified, justified and redeemed. The law did nothing to save us or justify us. The law was given as our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, Galatians 3:24,25. But after faith is come we are no longer under the schoolmaster (law), instead we are under grace. Paul said... "For you are not under the law, but under grace" Romans 6:14.

To be under the law is to be under condemnation and a curse, Galatians 3:10.

 

[Robert Pate]

You say that it does, habitual liar, as you pervert the gospel of Christ, on record, asserting that the law makes for righteousness, despite your denials,on orders from your father, as you satanically, again, assert the "vicarious law keeping" doctrine of demons-ON RECORD:










=he asserts that the law makes us righteous, as he spams that the Lord Jesus Christ became righteous, by keeping the law, on earth, and that His "walk" on earth,in the law, "100%," not the dbr, and not the righteousness of God, who is the Lord Jesus Christ,apart from the law, is imputed to us; thus, Christ died for nothing-ON RECORD.

John would like to be a Bible teacher, without the Bible.

 

[Right Divider]

In our name and on our behalf Jesus has fulfilled God's Holy Law for us.

It matters not one bit how often you repeat that bit of complete nonsense. It's just not true.

Jesus NEVER said that He "has fulfilled God's Holy Law for us". That is just a ridiculous fairy tale that you've fallen head over heals in love with.

(just wait folks, he's going abuse the same old verses that do NOT confirm his silliness).

 

[Rosenritter]

As I said the state of Alabama recently voted to affirm its Christianity by voting to display the 10 commandments on all state property.

Do you honestly not understand what a straw man argument is? It does you no good to invent an argument (against what I have said) and then argue against that absurd position.

Furthermore you're not talking to the state of Alabama, or someone who recognizes the state of Alabama as a legitimate authority of the Christian religion. The same goes for John Calvin's institutes or the Anglican book of Common prayer. The same goes for the Jewish Talmud, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and Augustine. I recognize none of these as valid authorities, so it is pointless to use these for an argument from authority.

The scripture has already told all of these that the Ten Commandments no longer matter. That authority trumps your private interpretation.

 

[Robert Pate]

It matters not one bit how often you repeat that bit of complete nonsense. It's just not true.

Jesus NEVER said that He "has fulfilled God's Holy Law for us". That is just a ridiculous fairy tale that you've fallen head over heals in love with.

(just wait folks, he's going abuse the same old verses that do NOT confirm his silliness).

If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us, Matthew 5:18, then who did he fulfill it for?

 

[Rosenritter]

If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us, Matthew 5:18, then who did he fulfill it for?

I think you may have a different idea of what it means to "fulfill the law."