ECT Refuting Limited Atonement

[Sonnet]

Hi and it is obviously that John 19:30 refutes Limited Atonement as Jesus said " it is FINISHED " which is verb in the PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD which means Jesus death for sins is PAST , PRESENT and in the FUITURE , period !!

dan p

I'm not quite following you Dan.

 

[beloved57]

There is but one Gospel.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is the Gospel.
Paul preached the Gospel to unbelievers (Romans 15:20)
Therefore Paul declared to unbelievers that, 'Christ died for our sins.'

And, hence, Christ died for all men. 1 John 2:2.
After all, this is the good news.

Paul may have preached the Gospel to unbelievers, but not all unbelievers are lost. The Gospel is hid to unbelievers that are lost so that they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

³ But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:


⁴ In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Also 1 Jn 2:2 says nothing about Christ dying for all men without exception.

 

[beloved57]

I have begun to read it. Whilst I do so please dwell on this:

Paul states that 1 Corinthians 15:3-5 is the Gospel, he declares that he and the Apostles preached it and he affirms that the unsaved Corinthians believed it.

You, however, wont preach such a Gospel to the unsaved. That's two Gospels.

False teaching, nothing anywhere in Corinthians saying that unsaved Corinthians believed the Gospel. The Gospel is hidden to the unsaved lost 2 Cor 4:3

³ But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

How can a unsaved lost man believe that which is hidden from him ?

 

[beloved57]

sonnet

If this is to be preached to the unsaved then the notion that Christ did not die for all is refuted.

It was not preached to the unsaved. It was preached to the saved reconciled ones who did not have sin charged to them. They were saved from their sins.

 

[Sonnet]

Paul may have preached the Gospel to unbelievers, but not all unbelievers are lost. The Gospel is hid to unbelievers that are lost so that they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

³ But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:


⁴ In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Correct - not all unbelievers are lost but those that will be were told, 'Christ died for our sins.' Any auditor would not exclude themself from that pronoun ('our'). This contradicts particular redemption.

I don't understand how you can still uphold this doctrine in light of the above.

 

[Sonnet]

False teaching, nothing anywhere in Corinthians saying that unsaved Corinthians believed the Gospel.

1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.

In any case, you have already accepted that Paul preached the Gospel to unbelievers. 1 Cor 15:3-4 is the essence of the Gospel

The Gospel is hidden to the unsaved lost 2 Cor 4:3/
B]How can a unsaved lost man believe that which is hidden from him ?

If one's only focus is on the god of this age, then, yes, the Gospel will be veiled - but John 12:32; 6:45.

 

[Sonnet]

sonnet



It was not preached to the unsaved. It was preached to the saved reconciled ones who did not have sin charged to them. They were saved from their sins.

You said this: Paul may have preached the Gospel to unbelievers

Is 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 the Gospel?

 

[beloved57]

Correct - not all unbelievers are lost but those that will be were told, 'Christ died for our sins.' Any auditor would not exclude themself from that pronoun ('our'). This contradicts particular redemption.

I don't understand how you can still uphold this doctrine in light of the above.

The lost unbelievers have no gospel of their salvation ! They are lost ! Paul was writing to saved believers in 1 Cor 15, not lost unbelievers

 

[beloved57]

1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.

In any case, you have already accepted that Paul preached the Gospel to unbelievers. 1 Cor 15:3-4 is the essence of the Gospel



If one's only focus is on the god of this age, then, yes, the Gospel will be veiled - but John 12:32; 6:45.

The gospel is hid to them which are lost, so they believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4 !

 

[beloved57]

You said this: Paul may have preached the Gospel to unbelievers

Is 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 the Gospel?

Paul preached the Gospel to unbelievers. You have lost unbelievers and saved unbelievers. No doubt Paul preached to them both. However His message is hid from the Lost unbelievers 2 Cor 4:3-4 !

 

[Sonnet]

Paul preached the Gospel to unbelievers.

So why did you say this:
"The lost unbelievers have no gospel of their salvation ! They are lost ! Paul was writing to saved believers in 1 Cor 15, not lost unbelievers"

It contradicts what say above.

You have lost unbelievers and saved unbelievers. No doubt Paul preached to them both. However His message is hid from the Lost unbelievers 2 Cor 4:3-4 !

Right - you accept that Paul preached the Gospel to unbelievers.
Is 1 Cor. 15:3-4 the Gospel?

 

[beloved57]

So why did you say this:
"The lost unbelievers have no gospel of their salvation ! They are lost ! Paul was writing to saved believers in 1 Cor 15, not lost unbelievers"

It contradicts what say above.



Right - you accept that Paul preached the Gospel to unbelievers.
Is 1 Cor. 15:3-4 the Gospel?

A lost person does not have salvation. Duh!

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[Sonnet]

beloved57, how many Gospels are there?

 

[Sonnet]

A lost person does not have salvation. Duh!

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I agree, but you didn't answer my question.

 

[beloved57]

I agree, but you didn't answer my question.

I did answer it. The Gospel of one's Salvation is not preached to the lost. Why would it be ? They are lost. Duh

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[Sonnet]

I did answer it. The Gospel of one's Salvation is not preached to the lost. Why would it be ? They are lost. Duh

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You have a Gospel for the saved and a Gospel for the unsaved?

Paul, regarding 1 Corinthians 15:3-4:
Whether, then, it is I or they (the other Apostles), this is what we preach and this is what you believed.

1. Paul preaches this Gospel.
2. The unsaved Corinthians believed it. (v.2a By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you)

Your thoughts?

 

[Sonnet]

I did answer it. The Gospel of one's Salvation is not preached to the lost. Why would it be ? They are lost. Duh

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That's two Gospels.

 

[beloved57]

That's two Gospels.

No its not. It is two groups of people being preached the Gospel. The saved and the lost. Duh

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[Grosnick Marowbe]

You have a Gospel for the saved and a Gospel for the unsaved?

Paul, regarding 1 Corinthians 15:3-4:
Whether, then, it is I or they (the other Apostles), this is what we preach and this is what you believed.

1. Paul preaches this Gospel.
2. The unsaved Corinthians believed it. (v.2a By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you)

Your thoughts?

He doesn't have any. At least any that are truthful. He's an "Ultra, hyper-Calvinist fanatic." Both he and Nanja have their own cult going on. Even the "Normal" Calvinists ignore him.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I agree, but you didn't answer my question.

His "answers" aren't worth listening to.