racism

[The Berean]

disregard...

 

[Thia]

Originally posted by LivingDeadDoll

Laugh if you will, (and i'm sure you will) but i don't even know who that is, or atleast i don't recall offhand, so using this person really doesn't mean a thing.

Well, here you go: http://www.davidduke.org/

He's a member of the White Supremes.

 

[The Berean]

never mind

 

[LivingDeadDoll]

another disclaimer:

as i have said before, if anyone thinks i am misinformed or just plain wrong and you can back up with evidence why you feel that way or you think you can explain it to me so that i might think differently, please do. Like i also said before, a lot of the things i say in here are questions or statements that are made to help me better understand what it is i am trying to figure out. i'm young, i'm not very current on many issues and i am trying to learn new things and i want people to debate with me so that i will be put to the test on my own views. My mind IS subject to change in certain areas. i am here to learn.

 

[Four O'Clock]

Originally posted by LivingDeadDoll

Laugh if you will, (and i'm sure you will) but i don't even know who that is, or atleast i don't recall offhand, so using this person really doesn't mean a thing.

Then you should do a search on Duke's history to realize how seriously you just shot your "credibility" in the foot.

I didn't see anything significant in your other links tho I might read that fish and wildlife piece in the State of Illinois page.

And finally, your first link shows the disporportionate incarceration rates among whites, blacks, and hispanic. The ONLY issue of color relevant in that link is GREEN as in economic realities. Lower income masses commit more crimes. Plain and simple. Its not black or white or brown its GREEN.

 

[LivingDeadDoll]

Originally posted by Thia

Well, here you go: http://www.davidduke.org/

He's a member of the White Supremes.

okie dokie then, i am SO not going there, just pretend i never added that particular link..

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by wickwoman

Dear Billwald:

I think you should consider the fact that black people were selectively "bred" in the United States and intelligence was not a trait that slave owners normally wanted. They wanted women who could give birth to lots of new slaves, and men with very brawny bodies who could do heavy lifting and hard work.

So, coupled with the fact that, compared to immigrants, black people were forced to come here and, when the finally gained freedom they went from being in the minus column economically speaking to having nothing, enduring many many years of discrimination, coupled with mere genetic problems inherent in a race that has been bred specifically for the purposes I listed above, I think you could cut them a little slack.

And, if you do believe that black people are less intelligent, and therefore poor and a burden on society, it seems you would be more than willing for there to be a Negro College fund so they could get educated and off the public dime.

As a lifetime resident of the south I notice that black people who live in northern states and from other parts of the country, are very different from many of the ancestors of slaves that we have living here. That for one, should speak to the problems of breeding a race of people as if they were animals. And, you should be wanting to lend a hand to overcome whatever "bad karma" we've sewn. And, in my opinion there's plenty of bad karma for white people to overcome related to past and current treatment of black people.

Dear Wickwoman:

I agree with what you said and would add that, so often we are trying to be politcally correct and pretend there are no differences, however, to ignore them is to leave problems unsolved. And the best way to approach a problem is honestly. And there is an actual problem.

(Don't mind me, I just hate being ignored.)

 

[billwald]

Culture is learned, not inhereted.

It is my theory that we are now living in a new world where NONE of the old culture matters. I predict that in another 40 years that the vast majority will be "mixed" race. People with high intelligence and ambition will marry people with high intelligence and ambition. They will form the new ruling class. People with low intelligence and low ambition will form the grunt class.

50 years ago Eric Hoffer predicted the "Negrofication" of America and that is exactly what has happened. The low class whites have fused with the low class blacks to form the grunt culture which is satisfied with cheap beer and the sports channel.

 

[Granite]

Well, what's exactly wrong with that?

 

[wickwoman]

Dear Billwald:

IF this new class you speak of is truly intelligent, they will be treating all human beings with respect, regardless of their intelligence and will have none of this "grunt" class that you speak of. All human beings, regardless of genetics, deserve the oportunity to get a leg up.

You said in the first sentence that culture is inherited then later, that intelligence was passed genetically. The problems you spoke of were related to genetics, not culture. Culture is the outgrowth of intellect for that matter.

It appears you want to be insulting by saying certain humans are stupid beyond their control, yet in the next breath that they're being stupid and lazy by choice and just to bother you. Which is it?

 

[Granite]

Bill, you know any black folks personally?

 

[Rydo]

Originally posted by LivingDeadDoll

...i just am stating facts that i have gathered and if it they are incorrect, correct me.

I believe I posted a rather large post in response to yours, yet you seem to have ignored it.

Originally posted by LivingDeadDoll

Laugh if you will, (and i'm sure you will) but i don't even know who that is, or atleast i don't recall offhand, so using this person really doesn't mean a thing.

If you don't know from whom or where you get your information; or the source of your information "really doesn't mean a thing," then how on earth can you or anyone else verify its credibility?

Just as anyone can post bogus information, anyone can post bogus source links. I was looking for more ".edu" or other such respectable sources. Obviously posting material from a white supremacist will subjectively support your claims.

 

[Rydo]

Originally posted by billwald

Culture is learned, not inhereted.

True.

Originally posted by billwald

It is my theory that we are now living in a new world where NONE of the old culture matters.

Hmm... I'm having a little more difficulty with this one. I contend that who we are is in large part due to who we were. Traditional culture, or "old culture," as you put it, does matter. It defined people then, and through cultural syncretism and hybridity, it will continue to define people today and 1,000 years from now.

Originally posted by billwald

I predict that in another 40 years that the vast majority will be "mixed" race.

What would be wrong with that? Ever heard of the term "Creole"?

 

[LivingDeadDoll]

Originally posted by Rydo

I believe I posted a rather large post in response to yours, yet you seem to have ignored it.


If you don't know from whom or where you get your information; or the source of your information "really doesn't mean a thing," then how on earth can you or anyone else verify its credibility?

Just as anyone can post bogus information, anyone can post bogus source links. I was looking for more ".edu" or other such respectable sources. Obviously posting material from a white supremacist will subjectively support your claims.

i apologize if you feel that i ignored you, i can assure you i merely overlooked your post as i am an extremely busy person. I have decided to stop "drive-by" posting though and in the future will only be commenting when i have the time to devote to such. I will go back and read your post and i will respond. As for my source links, that too was done in haste, my apologies.

 

[billwald]

Yes, I had a black high school kid living with us for 2 years because he was a friend of my kid's and needed a place to stay. Worked with and around and for black people for 30 years.

Nothing wrong with the comming "mixed" population. It will be a good thing!

"IF this new class you speak of is truly intelligent, they will be treating all human beings with respect, regardless of their intelligence and will have none of this "grunt" class that you speak of."

Everyone will be a leader? How will that work? The nature of poverty in the civilized post-industrial nations has changed. The poor people have the same things as the rich people, only of lesser quality and they have to stand in line to get them.

 

[LivingDeadDoll]

Originally posted by Rydo

Actually, recent studies show that "putting differences aside," or "ignoring differences" is exactly what minority groups don't want. They don't want whites claiming to be "color blind," they are black (or of another race) and want to be seen as such. They want their differences understood and respected, not ignored or influenced to be "more white."


First, I'd like to see support for such claims -- some links would be nice. Second, why are those differences necessarily bad? I would think it's fascinating, not disturbing, that our bodies are different. We are different, and that's the point. We should embrace those differences, not try to change or ignore them.


Links please? Anyone can spout off "information" about "studies." People who earn a lower income generally leave a lower tip. More than that, people from different cultures leave different tips. Europeans generally leave a lower tip than Americans. Can we then, according to your logic, say the same thing about Europeans? Nope.


No, you think about this: who created the IQ test? Alfred Binet, a white Frenchman, created the first IQ test. It was created to measure what white people viewed as a standard of intelligence.

The same thing goes for what you said about jobs. A lot of time, "job training," in terms of management-type positions, are modeled after the white businessman. People -- regardless of race, ethnicity, and gender -- are trained by corporate America to be more like corporate America. White businessmen. Let's all think alike, then we'll start moving places, right?


What is so terrible about this? Africans are a drumming people, they are a dancing people. When they were brought over as slaves, their drums were taken away, but that didn't stop them from drumming. They clapped, they sang in rhymic beats, they stomped, and they danced.

The fact is, whites systematically destroyed traditional African culture in America. Since slaves in North America were generally treated better than slaves in the Caribbean, they generally lived longer -- long enough to reproduce. Since slaves reproduced slaves right here in America, a large influx of slaves was not necessary to keep the population. This severed the ties between slaves and their African home. They didn't have more and more slaves coming over to bring fresh reminders of tradition.

Furthermore, whites were afraid that allowing Africans to enjoy their culture would give them a common foundation on which to rebel. Whites consciously divided up the different cultures -- slaves on a single plantation were often from various different cultures, speaking different languages, dialects, having different traditions and beliefs... this was done on purpose. Whites didn't want blacks communicating. whites were afraid that allowing Africans to enjoy their culture would give them a common foundation on which to rebel

I think you're missing the point, and I think you would benefit greatly from an anthropology course that studies the slave trade and it's subsequent effect on contemporary cultures, because you are gravely mistaken in many ways, some of which I have shown above.

You say that they want their differences to be understood, well i understand them, and i have to say that these differences in most cases are not positive. And that's my opinion, yours may differ and that's fine, maybe you have more information than i do.

As for your links i will address those in a post following this one.

As for people leaving tips according to their income, if they were more "job oriented" or better educated, then maybe they would have a higher income.

So a white man created the IQ test, i am not sure why that really matters, the fact is, there is an IQ test and a greater percentage of black people do poorly on it compared to white people. And managerial positions being modeled for the white man? where is YOUR link? I would think that it would not be modeled after anything except a person that could perform the job.

About the drumming and clapping, we're not in Africa, i'm not talking about tribesman. I'm talking about Americans. Maybe we live in two very different parts of the country, and maybe your neighborhood is a good one, but where i live a loud gang of black people stomping around with guns in the back of their pants can be a bit of a situation.

As for your talk of slaves, i am not talking about slaves. Like i said i am talking about people in the here and now. Did you forget, the slavery thing is over now. And if after all these years black people are STILL opressed because of slavery then i think my point is proven without even saying a word. Give me a break, the slavery thing is a crutch.

And i don't need a course in anything to be able to open my eyes and absorb the information around me and come to a logical conclusion based on that information. And what i have gathered in my lifetime must be very different from what you have seen in yours.

As i said, i will have those links in a few minutes considering that the homefront allows.

 

[Rydo]

Everything I said was more focused on an explanation of why they are as they are; I was not necessarily claiming that I saw things differently in the here and now.

 

[LivingDeadDoll]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=19195

http://psa-rising.com/med/african-am/raceAR92003.shtml

http://www.cbcrp.org/research/PageGrant.asp?grant_id=3807

http://depts.washington.edu/bonebio/bonAbout/race.html

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/43/6/1182

http://industries.bnet.com/abstract.aspx?cid=257&docid=121383

if i missed something of particualr interest to you let me know, OR if you don't believe my source to be credible, let me know, there are many many more on the subject.

 

[Vision]

I have to say that as an African American female, this post is very interesting.

Living Dead Doll- I'm not really sue how your posts are supposed to make me feel. I do agree with part of what you're saying. Black folks can be ghetto (loud and annoying at times). And I think most blacks that read your posts will think you're racist because you say what you say, i don't think so. But IQ tests? You could have flunked 10th grade 50 times and still have more common sense than the dude who went to harvard and has a masters degree in economics or medecine and is finding a cure for cancer. Iq tests don't say jack.

The whole bit that Rydo said, i agree with. The black culture has had a lot of mountains to climb over the time that we were brought to America. From slavery to the KKK to plessy vs. Ferguson to Brown vs. the Board of Education, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Jesse Jackson (although i think he is one of the dumbest smart black people alive) We have struggled, overcome, and put ourselves in holes.

Affirmative action, government programs blah blah blah (bily bob was right) The democratic party puts is back in dependance on the government so we can never reach our full potential. But that's a different topic all together.

Anyways, the reason we don't really score that well on aptitude tests is because we are an oral people. When we were brought here, we didn't learn to write, so we had to keep ourselves up through talking.

I can tell you for a fact that black people can talk for hours superbly but ask them to write their ideas down, and they can't do it. Not the case for me, but a lot of folks i know.

BAsically, we have contributed so many things to American society, countless things. But we still have a lot of htings to work out amongst ourselves, and with the white race. Forgiveness, a lot of talking to do, and connection. peace overall. it's gonna take a long time, but it's worth the time. Mos def

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Vision

I have to say that as an African American female, this post is very interesting.

Ahhh, thank you for joining our discussion.

Living Dead Doll- I'm not really sue how your posts are supposed to make me feel.

My advice would be to leave your feelings at the door before you enter this discussion [or any other discussion on a message board].

I do agree with part of what you're saying. Black folks can be ghetto (loud and annoying at times). And I think most blacks that read your posts will think you're racist because you say what you say, i don't think so. But IQ tests? You could have flunked 10th grade 50 times and still have more common sense than the dude who went to harvard and has a masters degree in economics or medecine and is finding a cure for cancer. Iq tests don't say jack.

Maybe not, but the guy who graduated Harvard is destined to earn a good living. Street smarts don't come with the same guarantee.

The whole bit that Rydo said, i agree with. The black culture has had a lot of mountains to climb over the time that we were brought to America. From slavery to the KKK to plessy vs. Ferguson to Brown vs. the Board of Education, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Jesse Jackson (although i think he is one of the dumbest smart black people alive) We have struggled, overcome, and put ourselves in holes.

Affirmative action, government programs blah blah blah (bily bob was right) The democratic party puts is back in dependance on the government so we can never reach our full potential. But that's a different topic all together.

I think it is pertinent to this discussion.

Anyways, the reason we don't really score that well on aptitude tests is because we are an oral people. When we were brought here, we didn't learn to write, so we had to keep ourselves up through talking.

That was 200 years ago, are you saying your people are unable to adapt?

I can tell you for a fact that black people can talk for hours superbly but ask them to write their ideas down, and they can't do it. Not the case for me, but a lot of folks i know.

If it isn't the case for you, then doesn't it seem likely that it isn't a racial problem?