racism

[Greywolf]

As for the differences between "black people", "white people", "asian people", etc... I think that many of the differences between different races are cultural in origin.

[anecdote]I'm in a lot of honors and AP classes, and just about every one of these classes is about 15-25% asian, even though they only make up about 2% of the student body. On the other hand I have only seen one black kid in any of these classes, and black kids represent about 4-5% of the student body at my school. Another thing I've noticed is the attitude of these students is their attitudes towards their scholastic pursuits. As I walk through the halls, I hear black kids congratulating each other on getting straight C's in regular classes. On the other hand, I don't think that a week has gone by where I haven't heard some horror story or the other from one of my asian friends about how their parents chewed them out for getting a 90% or similar grade on a test in an honors class. On the other hand, (I'm running out of hands here) I've noticed that there seems to be a large amount of emphasis on athletics among the black students that I've spoken with, and I've noticed that most of the sports teams at our school are about 30% black. (Note, I am not claiming that all black people are jocks, and that all asian people are nerds. This is also based on just the people that I know, so if the conclusion is valid, I don't know, but that is just what I've seen.)[/anecdote]

I do think that the culture we grow up in does greatly affect how we turn out, but something that I can't emphasize enough is that we as people are not limited as to what we can do with our lives by our race or even our culture. Ultimately, we are all individuals, and all responsible for our own actions. We are not defined by our culture or race, but rather what we choose do with ourselves. Not all black people are the same, not all asian people are the same, and not all white people are the same, etc. To condemn and individual based on the actions of people who happen to have the same skin color as him is just ignorant.


A side note about the IQ tests. I was reading about IQ tests the other day and the book mentioned that how the test is worded can make a huge difference in how the taker scores. As an example it cited how white children did fine on a test question worded "Circle the apple that is whole", while black children generally had trouble with the question. However, when the question was worded "Circle the apple that is all there.", there was no difference in performance. Food for thought.

 

[BillyBob]

I don't like apples.

 

[LivingDeadDoll]

Firstly, Vision, my posts are not meant to make you feel any particular way. I am just stating some information that i have come across that has been relayed to me as factual. As for me being racist, i guess that would depend on how you defined the word. Do i think poorly of all other races aside from my own? No. Do i think that anyone who is not my race is automatically deemed inferior to me? No. Do i avoid association with others of a different race? No. BUT Do i think that in particular the black race has a few more downfalls than the white race? Yes i have to say that i do. And i am sorry that there are so many uneducated ignorant black people out there that use their ancestory as a crutch to get something for nothing. I am quite sure that makes it doubly hard for those who are applying themselves. I think that is truly sad.

As for IQ tests, i think there would be controversy over that no matter who made the test or what it was originally intended for unless it was handed down by God himself. Personally i think that anyone that argues about how it is administered or who made it is only making excuses. The majority as a whole seems to have no problem with the test and it is accepted enough that we all know quite well what it is and where it came from.

As for what Rydo said, i am not arguing with SOME of what he said it's just that i am more focused on the present. I am not concerned with WHY things came to be in this matter becasue the existing problem is big enough that i would not want to waste my energies on worrying about the past (in this case.) But that does not mean i am not aware of WHY things came to be so.

And about black peoples contributions to society, maybe i was not clear before. I fully acknowledge that black people contribute many things to society, but they are things like sports, music, entertainment, and there is nothing wrong with that. (I probably have more rap music on my cpu than anything else) what i meant was that the particular things that they contribute are not things that are focused on pushing our society forward and making our country a better place. And once again, i'm not belittling anyone in saying that, i am just stating what i have observed.

Thank you for your comments and for responding to them in the manner that you did. Blessings -

 

[Granite]

Why should the talents of a particular group or individual be focused on advancing their nation?

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by billwald
"IF this new class you speak of is truly intelligent, they will be treating all human beings with respect, regardless of their intelligence and will have none of this "grunt" class that you speak of."

Everyone will be a leader? How will that work? The nature of poverty in the civilized post-industrial nations has changed. The poor people have the same things as the rich people, only of lesser quality and they have to stand in line to get them.

If there were a superior race, they would be superior both intelectually and spiritually. That means, that they would be sure that the poor and ignorant had what they needed - information and sustenance. All men and women would be treated with the equal respect and dignity they deserved. There would be no enslaved races because the "superiors" would not allow such a thing to happen. Certainly, some would serve others, and some would be richer or poorer, but there would be no "inferiors" only people who were different, with different priorities. And certainly wealth is not just an outgrowth of intellect, it is also a personal choice of a person who has made it a priority. A person can choose to live a simplier lifestyle, regardless of intellect. Finally, material wealth is not the ultimate goal. So I do not equate intellect or enlightenment with wealth.

 

[Rydo]

Originally posted by LivingDeadDoll

BUT Do i think that in particular the black race has a few more downfalls than the white race? Yes i have to say that i do. And i am sorry that there are so many uneducated ignorant black people out there that use their ancestory as a crutch to get something for nothing.

Have you ever heard of "White Collar" crime? I suggest possibly taking a look at the figures presented by the FBI, at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/whitecollarforweb.pdf -- it is interesting to note the dramatic negative effects white collar crime actually has on our economic well-being, since, according to you, blacks are more detrimental to the progress of our economy than other groups.

Originally posted by LivingDeadDoll
The majority as a whole seems to have no problem with the test and it is accepted enough that we all know quite well what it is and where it came from.

I would argue the opposite. Taking the IQ test is not a prerequisite to attend college or university, or any other institutions of higher education. Therefore, I would say that most "intellectuals" or individuals involved with "academia" do not lend the IQ test much credibility as an actual measure of intelligence.

Originally posted by LivingDeadDoll
As for what Rydo said, i am not arguing with SOME of what he said it's just that i am more focused on the present. I am not concerned with WHY things came to be in this matter becasue the existing problem is big enough that i would not want to waste my energies on worrying about the past (in this case.) But that does not mean i am not aware of WHY things came to be so.

Don't you think properly understanding why things are the way they are is necessarily important when attempting to find solutions to the "problems"?

Originally posted by LivingDeadDoll
And about black peoples contributions to society, maybe i was not clear before. I fully acknowledge that black people contribute many things to society, but they are things like sports, music, entertainment, and there is nothing wrong with that. (I probably have more rap music on my cpu than anything else) what i meant was that the particular things that they contribute are not things that are focused on pushing our society forward and making our country a better place. And once again, i'm not belittling anyone in saying that, i am just stating what i have observed.

That is completely contradictory. Entertainment, including: sports, music, dance, theater etc., is an enormous economic industry, which is very influential in "pushing our society forward." People earn higher incomes every year; our country has produced more goods and services than the year before every year for about 70 years (meaning our real Gross Domestic Product increases every year), and if you think the entertainment industry does not have a roll in that economic success you are being naive.

Furthermore, the entertainment industry is not the only industry heavily influenced by black people. I argue that many industries that are crucial to this country's economic progress and success are comprised of many different races and cultures (whites, blacks, Asians, etc.).

 

[billwald]

"That means, that they would be sure that the poor and ignorant had what they needed - information and sustenance."

The nature of poverty has changed. Our "poor" people are now dying of overweight. Because they don't have access to raw veggies? No, because they prefer to buy pre cooked food.

Poor people have all the same sorts of stuff that rich people do. The difference is that poor people have lowe quality stuff and have to stand in line to get it.

The visable "street people" should be institutionalize but the Supremes have decided they have a right to be crazy in public and sleep under a bridge.

 

[Granite]

Who's gonna foot the bill for the institutionalization, and since when are all homeless people by definition crazy?

 

[Chileice]

Originally posted by Vision


Anyways, the reason we don't really score that well on aptitude tests is because we are an oral people. When we were brought here, we didn't learn to write, so we had to keep ourselves up through talking.

I can tell you for a fact that black people can talk for hours superbly but ask them to write their ideas down, and they can't do it. Not the case for me, but a lot of folks i know.

Hey, thanks for the post. I have worked overseas for a good part of my life and it took me a long time to realize what you are saying about oral people is true. Some of the most intelligent people I know couldn't pass a college entrance exam but they could verbally express ideas that I had struggled with for years. I finally realized that is what my brother was. He was a solid "C" student. I was almost a straight "A" student. I could pass tests and regurgitate information with the best of them. He couldn't. But 3 years after doing an audit, he could recall every detail of to you in fine detail. He could express himself verbally and became controller of large corporation in spite of not being able to do well on standardized tests.

Blacks who came to America as slaves were forced to be oral learners and that was passed down because they were never afforded the opportunities to become systemitized rote learners as the white kids were. Thanks again for the post.

 

[Chileice]

Originally posted by billwald

Culture is learned, not inhereted.

It is my theory that we are now living in a new world where NONE of the old culture matters. I predict that in another 40 years that the vast majority will be "mixed" race. People with high intelligence and ambition will marry people with high intelligence and ambition. They will form the new ruling class. People with low intelligence and low ambition will form the grunt class.

50 years ago Eric Hoffer predicted the "Negrofication" of America and that is exactly what has happened. The low class whites have fused with the low class blacks to form the grunt culture which is satisfied with cheap beer and the sports channel.

What you will find is that the elites will also fall eventually. Elites don't wear well with the people they feel superior to. So after a while of being the "grunts", the grunts will throw off their oppressors and rule. Mongrels always seem to beat out the pure-breds. And I think that is for the benefit of the species. Go Grunts!!:jump: :bannana: :thumb:

 

[Granite]

:thumb:

 

[PureX]

Whooo-weeee! We got all kinds of prejudicial worms out of their cans on this thread.

It's interesting, all this animosity toward the I.Q. tests and "accademia" in general. I suspect that I.Q. tests have been designed to test only certain kinds of thought processes and that they are somewhat prejudicial that way. However, smart people are smart people and most people are not. It's the Bell Curve. There are very few really smart people, more pretty smart people, lots of relatively smart people, a whole lot of average people, lots of relatively dumb people, fewer pretty dumb people, and very few really dumb people.

The facts are that there are very likely a lot of people who are smarter than we are. They always have been smarter, and they always will be smarter. And we don't like it. We don't like them. We don't like them because they remind us that we aren't as smart as we like to imagine ourselves to be. And that's why we don't like I.Q. tests or "accademics" or "intellectuals" and it's why the red states don't like the blue states and why the neo-cons don't like the liberals and on and on ....

I really think America has been trading in it's racial prejudice for intellectual prejudice.

 

[Granite]

Anything to divide people against one another.

I'm glad I work in sales, where a piece of paper on the wall means absolutely jack. Prove yourself and nobody'll care if you only made it through high school.

 

[wickwoman]

There is a difference between knowledge and intelligence. Intelligence is the capacity to retain a large amount of knowledge and to understand complex issues beyond mere recitation. Knowledge is what you hope to get in school. But, a person who's never attended a school can be more intelligent than a person with a PhD.

As for Billwald's comment on slavery being "then" and this is "now." People do not just drop on this planet from outter space. There are years of genetics, culture, and prejudice to overcome. And it doesn't happen overnight.

My opinion about the smarts, the sorta smarts, the average Joe's, the dumbs, and the really dumbs is that it's the "really dumbs" who believe it's important to point out how smart they are and how dumb everyone else is. A truly intelligent person knows their own limitations, knows the limitations of others, but more importantly, understand the underlying reason that others are limited and has a plan for how to help correct it.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by PureX

Whooo-weeee! We got all kinds of prejudicial worms out of their cans on this thread.

It's interesting, all this animosity toward the I.Q. tests and "accademia" in general. I suspect that I.Q. tests have been designed to test only certain kinds of thought processes and that they are somewhat prejudicial that way. However, smart people are smart people and most people are not. It's the Bell Curve. There are very few really smart people, more pretty smart people, lots of relatively smart people, a whole lot of average people, lots of relatively dumb people, fewer pretty dumb people, and very few really dumb people.

The facts are that there are very likely a lot of people who are smarter than we are. They always have been smarter, and they always will be smarter. And we don't like it. We don't like them. We don't like them because they remind us that we aren't as smart as we like to imagine ourselves to be. And that's why we don't like I.Q. tests or "accademics" or "intellectuals" and it's why the red states don't like the blue states and why the neo-cons don't like the liberals and on and on ....

I really think America has been trading in it's racial prejudice for intellectual prejudice.

:darwinsm:

 

[billwald]

"Blacks who came to America as slaves were forced to be oral learners and that was passed down. . . ."

If this is a learned ability that is passed down, OK. If it is claimed to be a genetic difference then I have a problem with it.

 

[Crow]

It has certain a Lamarckian ring to it, doesn't it?

 

[Chileice]

Originally posted by billwald

"Blacks who came to America as slaves were forced to be oral learners and that was passed down. . . ."

If this is a learned ability that is passed down, OK. If it is claimed to be a genetic difference then I have a problem with it.

I don't suppose it is exactly "genetic" but it is cultural. And in a sense, cultural values are "bred" into people, through the very teachings and structure of the cultures in which they live.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by billwald

"Blacks who came to America as slaves were forced to be oral learners and that was passed down. . . ."

One would be hard-pressed to explain the invention of written language under that circumstance.

 

[BillyBob]

Blacks will claim that they invented writing. [They may have]