racism

[Chileice]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

One would be hard-pressed to explain the invention of written language under that circumstance.

You might want to do some study on orality and oral learning. Here is a website from a Christian perspective:
http://www.newwway.org/
where you might get a better understanding of what we are talking about. It doesn't mean a person is necessarily illiterate. What it means is that they prefer to get and transmit information orally. Most people in the world, in fact are oral learners. That is why television has been phenomenally successful.

In fact, it probably was a a small minority of people that felt the need to express themselves in some written form. As far as we know a few Sumerians were the first to figure out how to do that with some symbols that we call letters. Others expressed themselves earlier, like the cave painters at Altamira. But, by and large most people now and throughout history have prefered to be listened to rather than be read.

It is not a question of intelligence but a question of learning style or sometimes a lack of opportunity to learn in written form.

 

[billwald]

First, far as I know, no black African culture ever had a written language.

Second, yes, it is culture. It is my thesis that "black" culture is now identical to "white trash" (Okie, whatever) culture and does not prepare one for leadership in a post industrial society. 50 years ago Socialist Michael Harrington described the problem in terms of "event horizon," the inability to plan ahead.

After working and living around poor people for 35 years, I have concluded that in the USofA their problem is not a lack of cash money but the inability to handle cash money and credit.

For example, one never sees a group of the poor and oppressed without half of them smoking factory made ciggy butts. If I was a nicotine addict I would learn to roll my own and save $3/pack.

When I mention this to poor people the universal response is "I don't like the taste." I have heard a wino complain about vintage. Far as I'm concerned, smoking is a habit, not an addiction. I occasionally smoke a pipe at home but not on vacation. It is an amusement. It harasses fanatics.

 

[Chileice]

Originally posted by billwald

First, far as I know, no black African culture ever had a written language.

Second, yes, it is culture. It is my thesis that "black" culture is now identical to "white trash" (Okie, whatever) culture and does not prepare one for leadership in a post industrial society. 50 years ago Socialist Michael Harrington described the problem in terms of "event horizon," the inability to plan ahead.

After working and living around poor people for 35 years, I have concluded that in the USofA their problem is not a lack of cash money but the inability to handle cash money and credit.

For example, one never sees a group of the poor and oppressed without half of them smoking factory made ciggy butts. If I was a nicotine addict I would learn to roll my own and save $3/pack.

When I mention this to poor people the universal response is "I don't like the taste." I have heard a wino complain about vintage. Far as I'm concerned, smoking is a habit, not an addiction. I occasionally smoke a pipe at home but not on vacation. It is an amusement. It harasses fanatics.

Your prejudices are obviously deep-seated and beyond the scope of this forum to deal with. You have judged the world from your limited experience and have developed your own view of the world in which you have generalized everyone into convenient boxes in which they can be categorized and controlled (at least in your mind). I hope your vision will someday be expanded and your heart will be opened to the point where your prejudices can be overcome.

 

[Granite]

I'm with Chileice on this one. Look, bill, you can take the good with the bad, but if all you're doing is spending time in the muck, it kinda distorts your perspective.

People are different. Cultures are different. Races are different. But differences have nothing to do with inferiority, and they certainly don't have anything to do with superiority, either.

I suspect you, Living Dead Doll, and others here are a little hesitant to say what you REALLY think, but I've noticed in the past that this is often the case with people afraid they might get run out on a rail if they started spouting off what they held in their heart of hearts.

P.S. Why, I hafta ask, is it significant to you that a black African culture never developed a written language? (Assuming it's true, that is.)

 

[billwald]

Please explain my factual errors so that I can correct my thinking.

 

[Granite]

Factual errors based on your anecdotes, no. But I'm detecting an axe to grind...

 

[billwald]

No ax. I Thank God for being born in the greatest country and the best times that the working class has ever seen. I have everything that I wanted badly enough to work for and I am naturally lazy. I have a good pension that more than pays the bills. I have sufficient consumer goods. I have risen to, exceeded, and dropped back to my level of incompetance.

 

[Granite]

Non sequitar. None of this (except maybe obliquely) has anything to do with race. You've done well for yourself. Good for you. What's your beef?

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by billwald
I have everything that I wanted badly enough to work for and I am naturally lazy.

Perhaps this explains your apparent reluctance to give some deeper thought to the African American issue and what truly causes the alleged problems you brought up. For that matter, the solution. Or were you just griping for the sake of getting it off your chest?

 

[billwald]

I hate stupidity and bad reasoning. I hate people making excuses and complaining about stuff they have at least some control over. I hate bad music.

The "African issue" is that it only exists inside the minds of people who call themselves "African American" and the people who profit by keeping them on the bottom of the social/economic pile. For example, statistically, African American women have a higher average wage than white women. Why? Because white people hate them? Maybe because they are forced to work harder, longer, or smarter.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by billwald

I hate stupidity and bad reasoning. I hate people making excuses and complaining about stuff they have at least some control over. I hate bad music.

The "African issue" is that it only exists inside the minds of people who call themselves "African American" and the people who profit by keeping them on the bottom of the social/economic pile. For example, statistically, African American women have a higher average wage than white women. Why? Because white people hate them? Maybe because they are forced to work harder, longer, or smarter.

"Bad music" truly being in the ear of the beholder, but hey. I get your point.

Some people who identify themselves as "African American" are freeloaders, and some are not.

 

[Thia]

Originally posted by granite1010

Some people who identify themselves as "African American" are freeloaders, and some are not.

What is this 'African American' stuff anyway? What if you're from Jamaica or the Dominican Republic? I mean, what a mouthful..."I'm Euro American, and here is my friend who is African American and his friend, an Asian American..." ad nauseum. Sorry to get off subject here, but the term gets on my last nerve.

 

[Granite]

As one wag--George Carlin?--has already noted, a Dutch-bred South African can be "African American" and still walk around blue-eyed and blonde. Why's this person any less of an "African American"?

 

[Thia]

Originally posted by granite1010

As one wag--George Carlin?--has already noted, a Dutch-bred South African can be "African American" and still walk around blue-eyed and blonde. Why's this person any less of an "African American"?

Exactly. I went to school with someone from the Domincan Republic who went ballistic when someone called her an African American. Can't we go back to black and white? Of course, that would bring up other issues, such as what to call Asians or Hispanic peoples...

Here's another note on the above: I lived in a one-horse, one-newspaper town in the Central Valley for awhile and the publisher of the paper was black. However, he used to upper case Black and lowercase white. Come on, now.

 

[Vision]

Ok from way back-(like 2 pages ago)

billiybob- i was just explaining why some blacks are the way they are. we don't all live in te same area, eat the same foods (completely) talk the same way, act the same way. i can't remember all of what you said, so i can't say all that i want.

And i wasn't saying that my race can't advance. that's stupid for anyone to think or suggest- you or me. i was explaining why hypothetically why some black people have tendencies. im not being specific, but general. obviously...

About the whole african american thing. I'm a hispanic-black- american. my mother is an african from panama (central america) so im more directly african than most that live in my neighborhood. but aside fom that, i think a more appropriate ID would be american of african descent.

Living dead doll- im not offended. you can think, that's what we were given a brain for. i can't remeber all of what you said, but im cool.

All in all- its one thing for yall to talk about race on the internet in some theology forum. But life application is what counts. You can write til your fingers come off, but if what you say isn't how you live, then you might as well not write anything. That goes to anyone of any color who stands for anything. we have to understand that we are different. Point blank.

 

[Thia]

Originally posted by Vision

About the whole african american thing. I'm a hispanic-black- american. my mother is an african from panama (central america) so im more directly african than most that live in my neighborhood. but aside fom that, i think a more appropriate ID would be american of african descent.

This is a good point. I'm English and Spanish, so who am I? What box do I check when filling out an application - 'other'? Americans are blends of so many races nowadays that it's rather futile to try and label them as anything other than 'American'. I think "American of ******descent" is a viable option.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by billwald

First, far as I know, no black African culture ever had a written language.

The Egyptians didn't have a written language? How about the Nubians?

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by granite1010

As one wag--George Carlin?--has already noted, a Dutch-bred South African can be "African American" and still walk around blue-eyed and blonde. Why's this person any less of an "African American"?

That is why the term 'Black' or 'Negro' is more appropriate. It is certainly more accurate.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Vision

Ok from way back-(like 2 pages ago)

billiybob- i was just explaining why some blacks are the way they are. we don't all live in te same area, eat the same foods (completely) talk the same way, act the same way. i can't remember all of what you said, so i can't say all that i want.

And i wasn't saying that my race can't advance. that's stupid for anyone to think or suggest- you or me. i was explaining why hypothetically why some black people have tendencies. im not being specific, but general. obviously...

Here was my post to you.

Originally posted by Vision

I have to say that as an African American female, this post is very interesting.

Ahhh, thank you for joining our discussion.

Living Dead Doll- I'm not really sue how your posts are supposed to make me feel.

My advice would be to leave your feelings at the door before you enter this discussion [or any other discussion on a message board].

I do agree with part of what you're saying. Black folks can be ghetto (loud and annoying at times). And I think most blacks that read your posts will think you're racist because you say what you say, i don't think so. But IQ tests? You could have flunked 10th grade 50 times and still have more common sense than the dude who went to harvard and has a masters degree in economics or medecine and is finding a cure for cancer. Iq tests don't say jack.

Maybe not, but the guy who graduated Harvard is destined to earn a good living. Street smarts don't come with the same guarantee.

The whole bit that Rydo said, i agree with. The black culture has had a lot of mountains to climb over the time that we were brought to America. From slavery to the KKK to plessy vs. Ferguson to Brown vs. the Board of Education, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Jesse Jackson (although i think he is one of the dumbest smart black people alive) We have struggled, overcome, and put ourselves in holes.

Affirmative action, government programs blah blah blah (bily bob was right) The democratic party puts is back in dependance on the government so we can never reach our full potential. But that's a different topic all together.

I think it is pertinent to this discussion.

Anyways, the reason we don't really score that well on aptitude tests is because we are an oral people. When we were brought here, we didn't learn to write, so we had to keep ourselves up through talking.

That was 200 years ago, are you saying your people are unable to adapt?

I can tell you for a fact that black people can talk for hours superbly but ask them to write their ideas down, and they can't do it. Not the case for me, but a lot of folks i know.

If it isn't the case for you, then doesn't it seem likely that it isn't a racial problem?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by BillyBob

That is why the term 'Black' or 'Negro' is more appropriate. It is certainly more accurate.

"Black" works for me. What the world is wrong with being "black"? I mean, get over yourself...I'm not an Irish-American. Hyphenated Americans aren't much of anything if not self-obsessed.