Epoisses
New member
That Jesus is the savior of all men especially of those who believe 1Tim. 4:10
As by the offence of one sin came upon all men so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life Rom. 5:18
Paul: "If Christ be not raised your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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That Jesus is the savior of all men especially of those who believe 1Tim. 4:10
As by the offence of one sin came upon all men so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life Rom. 5:18
Ben Masada
New member
If Christ be not raised your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins.
We don't need to let ourselves be taken away by this Pauline statement because it did not come up from a sincere heart; if you read I Corinthians 15:32, he said that if the dead rise not, let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die. It means that his conviction was conditional. Something akin to a deal with the Lord: "My loyalty in exchange for resurrection. Otherwise, I'll make a carnival of my life because nothing else is worth the bid." There is no spiritual credibility in such a statement.
We don't need to let ourselves be taken away by this Pauline statement because it did not come up from a sincere heart; if you read I Corinthians 15:32, he said that if the dead rise not, let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die. It means that his conviction was conditional. Something akin to a deal with the Lord: "My loyalty in exchange for resurrection. Otherwise, I'll make a carnival of my life because nothing else is worth the bid." There is no spiritual credibility in such a statement.
Epoisses
New member
The cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.
"Does" sounds like a lotta action
You ought to put trolls on ignore. They are a total waste of time.
Ben Masada
New member
To all of us who are perishing, for we all perish. But only to Jesus it had some meaning because he was the one to experience it, thanks to his own disciples. (Luke 19:37-40)Wake up to reality Epoisses! There is more than a life in this world.
I've never seen such blindness in men in my life.
Ben Masada
New member
And only to Jesus it was serious when we consider the consequences thereof, thanks to his own disciples. (Luke 19:37-40)
Epoisses
New member
Yea, the 'actions' of Christ that you reject.
Nanja
Well-known member
Yes, and it's all according to God's Purpose in Election.
2 Cor. 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Eph. 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
~~~~~
Ben Masada
New member
Okay, did you know that Paul used to claim that he was not under the Law? (Romans 6:14) You didn't. At least, did you know that Jesus said that to escape hell-fire we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law? (Luke 16:29-31) There are three classifications as the Law is concern: a) Those under the Law aka the Law-abide citizens; b - the One above the Law aka the Almighty Himself; and c)The outlaws who are not under the Law aka Paul. Is he still your hero?
Amazing how blind you are.
It is about hearing and believing the Gospel, and you think that it is about election.
Epoisses
New member
If you're not under law then you're under grace. The whole world fits into one camp or the other.
Brother Ducky
New member
So this is all that one has to believe? Could you add some meat to go with the sizzle, because if limited to these two verses you are proposing a universalism, but if that is the case, there is no issue with being a Calvinist.
We are certainly part of all men and we believe.
Nanja
Well-known member
Without a doubt, you are spiritually blinded 2 Cor. 4:3-4; Eph. 4:18.
All those that are in the flesh, are carnal, unregenerate.
Their own faith / believing is worthless in Spiritual matters.
1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So, they cannot spiritually hear / comprehend (akouō) God's Words:
John 8:47
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
And no works they do in the flesh can please God:
Rom. 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But one who is Born of God is given Faith Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8; Titus 1:1!
So Hearing and believing the Gospel is only possible by one who is Born of the Spirit of God, Spiritually regenerated.
Only then, with God-Given Faith, is it possible to Please God!
Heb. 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
~~~~~
You are overlooking some very important Bible facts.
On the day of Pentecost when God revealed the Gospel to the apostles and others, those that heard and believed the Gospel received the Holy Spirit and were born again. The number was about 8,000, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. They heard and they believed.
This is why Paul wrote, "So then faith comes by HEARING and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.
No one is saved twice.
Nanja
Well-known member
Of themselves they were incapable of doing anything that pleased God.
But it was because the Holy Ghost fell on them:
Acts. 11:15
And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Because God's Almighty Spiritual Power fell upon them, they were Made Able to Hear the Gospel which is Spiritual, by God-Given Faith, a Fruit and Gift of the Holy Spirit!
~~~~~
They cannot see !
Jn 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Ben Masada
New member
Yes, it does. However, one thing is guaranteed; observe the Law and you are safe. Use your method to claim grace and you could be in big trouble. Epoisses, if not for me, do it for Jesus. His method was the one of the Law down to the letter, including the rituals. (Mat. 5:17-19) But you don't need the rituals; you can do it at least as the Decalogue is concerned since it for all, not only Jews. Jesus preferred the method without risk. The grace method depends on the Law method. Never forget that God's main blessings of forgiveness and salvation are depending on how we observe the Law.
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Epoisses
New member
You don't believe that Jesus is the savior of the world aka a universal atonement.
The Samaritans called Jesus the savior of the world and they definitely were not part of the 'whole world of Israel'.