Paul: "If Christ be not raised your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins"

[Aletheiophile]

What did you understand me to be asking you ?

Do you believe that those Christ died for are Justified before God, declared Righteous before Him,

I assume that you mean before Him as in His presence, yes? Seated in heavenly places, translated into the Kingdom of God's dear Son, we have been reckoned righteous according to the death and resurrection of Christ.

while they are enemies and unbelievers, solely on the merits of Christ life and death for them alone ?

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Salvation is not something achieved and attained, but granted and given. Repentance is granted. Faith is given. Grace is given. We only receive.

Recognizing that you are reformed, I would assume that you are also implying that timelessly we are in Christ?

 

[beloved57]

I assume that you mean before Him as in His presence, yes? Seated in heavenly places, translated into the Kingdom of God's dear Son, we have been reckoned righteous according to the death and resurrection of Christ.



While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Salvation is not something achieved and attained, but granted and given. Repentance is granted. Faith is given. Grace is given. We only receive.

Recognizing that you are reformed, I would assume that you are also implying that timelessly we are in Christ?

I don't believe you understand what I asked you.

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[Aletheiophile]

I don't believe you understand what I asked you.

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What am I not understanding?

 

[beloved57]

What am I not understanding?

I already posted it.

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[Aletheiophile]

I already posted it.

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Are you referring to the limited number of those saved?

 

[beloved57]

Are you referring to the limited number of those saved?

I don't know what you are talking about.

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[Aletheiophile]

I don't know what you are talking about.

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Then I have no idea what you are referring to. I have no idea how I'm misunderstand what you put forth.

 

[Nang]

Then I have no idea what you are referring to. I have no idea how I'm misunderstand what you put forth.

B57 believes in "eternal justification" and that Adam is the source of only elect mankind, & the rest of mankind issued forth from Satan. Thus, the elect were always justified and separated through Adam from the devil, & never were under the condemnation & wrath of God (which contradicts Ephesians 2:1-5)

He was testing you and feeling you out to see where you might stand regarding his favorite theory . . .

 

[Aletheiophile]

B57 believes in "eternal justification" and that Adam is the source of only elect mankind, & the rest of mankind issued forth from Satan. Thus, the elect were always justified and separated through Adam from the devil, & never were under the condemnation & wrath of God (which contradicts Ephesians 2:1-5)

He was testing you and feeling you out to see where you might stand regarding his favorite theory . . .

Yikes. That's not cool. Thanks for the information.

 

[beloved57]

Then I have no idea what you are referring to. I have no idea how I'm misunderstand what you put forth.

Ok, then you have not paid attention to what I posted, and you didn't understand after all.

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[beloved57]

B57 believes in "eternal justification" and that Adam is the source of only elect mankind, & the rest of mankind issued forth from Satan. Thus, the elect were always justified and separated through Adam from the devil, & never were under the condemnation & wrath of God (which contradicts Ephesians 2:1-5)

He was testing you and feeling you out to see where you might stand regarding his favorite theory . . .

Nang, how are the elect ever under condemnation when they were reconciled to God while they were enemies by Christ death Rom 5:10.

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[TulipBee]

You don't even believe that Jesus is the savior of the world and you're going to condemn others of being in doubt. You are in doubt and unbelief pot/kettle!

Let God be the judge of that. I'm sure you'll be happy to see me burn in hell.

 

[Nang]

Nang, how are the elect ever under condemnation when they were reconciled to God while they were enemies by Christ death Rom 5:10.

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The entire human race was represented by Adam, as their federal head, and when he sinned, his death sentence was imputed to all his offspring. All his biological seed are born with corrupted natures and thus are declared guilty in the legal renderings of God.

Romans 3:19, 23

 

[beloved57]

The entire human race was represented by Adam, as their federal head, and when he sinned, his death sentence was imputed to all his offspring. All his biological seed are born with corrupted natures and thus are declared guilty in the legal renderings of God.

Romans 3:19, 23

You are evading, how are the elect whom Christ died for under condemnation as unbelievers, when they are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10 ?

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[Nang]

You are evading, how are the elect whom Christ died for under condemnation as unbelievers, when they are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10 ?

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If the elect were not guilty & under the wrath of God, why did Jesus Christ have to pay their death sentence by dying substitutionally for them on the cross?

 

[beloved57]

If the elect were not guilty & under the wrath of God, why did Jesus Christ have to pay their death sentence by dying substitutionally for them on the cross?

You answered your own question, the guilt they incurred was transferred to Him to pay their death and Condemnation and so they can never be under condemnation. That's why they are born into the World reconciled to God while they are enemies.

 

[Nang]

You answered your own question, the guilt they incurred was transferred to Him to pay their death and Condemnation and so they can never be under condemnation. That's why they are born into the World reconciled to God while they are enemies.

I see contradiction in the bolded above.

If the elect can never be condemned as guilty (in the first Adam), then what was the necessity for them to be reconciled to God in the last Adam?

Why were the elect ever called "enemies?"

I question you in this regard, for I fear the doctrine of Total Depravity is at stake . . .

 

[beloved57]

I see contradiction in the bolded above.

If the elect can never be condemned as guilty (in the first Adam), then what was the necessity for them to be reconciled to God in the last Adam?

Why were the elect ever called "enemies?"

I question you in this regard, for I fear the doctrine of Total Depravity is at stake . . .

They are enemies in that they are born sinners by nature, but they are still reconciled to God by Christ death. Other sinners by nature are under Gods Wrath and Condemnation, but not the elect. Who can lay any charge upon Gods Elect ? It is God that Justified them, Christ died for them.

 

[Nang]

They are enemies in that they are born sinners by nature, but they are still reconciled to God by Christ death.

Agreed.

Other sinners by nature are under Gods Wrath and Condemnation, but not the elect.

This contradicts:

" . . we all (elect) once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh, and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:3

Who can lay any charge upon Gods Elect ? It is God that Justified them, Christ died for them.

Agreed.

Why was it necessary Christ died for them? If the elect, from before the foundation of the world, were forensically known by God as justified in Christ before creation, why did Christ suffer, in the fulness of time, on the cross?

 

[beloved57]

Agreed.



This contradicts:

" . . we all (elect) once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh, and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:3




Agreed.

Why was it necessary Christ died for them? If the elect, from before the foundation of the world, were forensically known by God as justified in Christ before creation, why did Christ suffer, in the fulness of time, on the cross?

You can not avoid that those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10, and others are not, but are under Gods condemnation and wrath. Sinners that are reconciled to God are not under condemnation, that is a contradiction.

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