Paul: "If Christ be not raised your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins"

Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
B57 is a hyper Calvinist. He believes that God chose him to salvation before the foundation of the world.

He does not believe that you have to receive Christ as your savior because that is a work, nor does he believe that you have to have faith or believe in Christ as that is also a work.
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Yes, you preach Salvation by works, by what a person does.

The Election of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9 are given Faith, which is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22, when they are Born Again!

~~~~~
 
A

Aletheiophile

New member
Robert Pate said:
B57 is a hyper Calvinist. He believes that God chose him to salvation before the foundation of the world.

He does not believe that you have to receive Christ as your savior because that is a work, nor does he believe that you have to have faith or believe in Christ as that is also a work.
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Well then I probably agree with B57 more than yourself. How do you understand salvation and faith? For I understand faith as the thing believed, and believing as a result of the thing believed. God is the source of the thing believed, for He is the thing beliveed.

Faith is not a requirement, it's a gift. It's only required once it's been given. But once it's been given...you aren't the source of it anyway, so maintaining it is not your responsibility anyway.

So of course we are chosen before the foundation of the world...except that God is outside of time so there is no before for Him. He knows us as/before the moment of salvation. He knows us regardless of time. So of course it was before...but there's no before.

That said, there is a time when we hear and respond to the Gospel, but that is nothing that we can subjectively initiate or determine. Faith receives, it does not initiate. The root word of faith is "peitho," to persuade. You cannot persuade yourself. You can only be persuaded. Thus as a faithful individual, I have been persuaded by God of the gospel. 'Nuf said.
 
meshak

meshak

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Banned
Aletheiophile said:
Well, I'll have you know that I'm largely reformed/Lutheran in my doctrine, so if I prematurely agreed with him it was not in support of works-soteriology or Armenianism.
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so you are one those one time confession salvation follower.

typical one.
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

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Banned
meshak said:
so you are one those one time confession salvation follower.

typical one.
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God does the saving and that is done only once. You save yourself multiple times, falsely, cause you're always in doubt. Constantly being in total depravity will produce constant doubt that comes with sinning. You're always not sure so you fall for whatever the JW tells you. Denying Jesus is God is evidence that you're always in doubt. Regeneration is the cure of doubts but that has to be done by God, not anything you, do like follow to earn a ticket to heaven. You believe there's only 144000 seats in heaven and you would never get a ticket.
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
Robert Pate said:
B57 is a hyper Calvinist. He believes that God chose him to salvation before the foundation of the world.

He does not believe that you have to receive Christ as your savior because that is a work, nor does he believe that you have to have faith or believe in Christ as that is also a work.
Click to expand...
God existed before the foundation of the world. You know that?
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Aletheiophile said:
Well, I'll have you know that I'm largely reformed/Lutheran in my doctrine, so if I prematurely agreed with him it was not in support of works-soteriology or Armenianism.
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I dont care what you are, when you support someone who teaches salvation by works, which is an abominable blasphemy.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Aletheiophile said:
Well, AMR so kindly linked me to a post explaining Pate's beliefs, which I definitely do not share. I was premature in supporting him.
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Do you believe that those Christ died for are Justified before God, declared Righteous before Him, while they are enemies and unbelievers, solely on the merits of Christ life and death for them alone ?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
TulipBee said:
God does the saving and that is done only once. You save yourself multiple times, falsely, cause you're always in doubt. Constantly being in total depravity will produce constant doubt that comes with sinning. You're always not sure so you fall for whatever the JW tells you. Denying Jesus is God is evidence that you're always in doubt. Regeneration is the cure of doubts but that has to be done by God, not anything you, do like follow to earn a ticket to heaven. You believe there's only 144000 seats in heaven and you would never get a ticket.
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You don't even believe that Jesus is the savior of the world and you're going to condemn others of being in doubt. You are in doubt and unbelief pot/kettle!
 
A

Aletheiophile

New member
beloved57 said:
Do you believe that those Christ died for are Justified before God, declared Righteous before Him, while they are enemies and unbelievers, solely on the merits of Christ life and death for them alone ?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk
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Absolutely. The Victory is in Christ's death and resurrection and nothing else.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Aletheiophile said:
Well then I probably agree with B57 more than yourself. How do you understand salvation and faith? For I understand faith as the thing believed, and believing as a result of the thing believed. God is the source of the thing believed, for He is the thing beliveed.

Faith is not a requirement, it's a gift. It's only required once it's been given. But once it's been given...you aren't the source of it anyway, so maintaining it is not your responsibility anyway.

So of course we are chosen before the foundation of the world...except that God is outside of time so there is no before for Him. He knows us as/before the moment of salvation. He knows us regardless of time. So of course it was before...but there's no before.

That said, there is a time when we hear and respond to the Gospel, but that is nothing that we can subjectively initiate or determine. Faith receives, it does not initiate. The root word of faith is "peitho," to persuade. You cannot persuade yourself. You can only be persuaded. Thus as a faithful individual, I have been persuaded by God of the gospel. 'Nuf said.
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If that is what you believe, then you also must believe that God gives life for the sole purpose of destroying it in hell.
 
A

Aletheiophile

New member
Robert Pate said:
If that is what you believe, then you also must believe that God gives life for the sole purpose of destroying it in hell.
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No. God is not responsible for man's dysfunction. (Gen 6:5 and 6:12) Man did not multiply according to God-given function. He is not obligated to them. He is only obligated to those in Christ, because they are one with Him.

God sending His Logos to be incarnate was Mercy, not duty.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Aletheiophile said:
No. God is not responsible for man's dysfunction. (Gen 6:5 and 6:12) Man did not multiply according to God-given function. He is not obligated to them. He is only obligated to those in Christ, because they are one with Him.

God sending His Logos to be incarnate was Mercy, not duty.
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So you believe that God only saved "Some Certain Persons" and damned the rest to hell?
 
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