On Rape

[chrysostom]

No. :chuckle:

I was talking about those who are burying their head in the sand on this issue.

who says I not sensitive?

 

[glorydaz]

who says I not sensitive?

Well I'll certainly never say it again....that much I do know.

 

[bybee]

who says I not sensitive?

You are very sensitive.

 

[Angel4Truth]

if i went down to the ferguson protests wearing klan robes carrying a sign that said "Michael Brown Deserved To Be Shot", would I bear any responsibility for the inevitable beating I would get? Of course




how about this one? Is this woman responsible for the "rape" that she endured?

Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up (ie. having sex) for three months”:

“They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’”

Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...f0a_story.html

I wouldnt consider that rape.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Don't go near the deep end if you're' going to dive in like that. :nono:


I didn't even come close to saying anything even close to that, Bybee. The righteous indignation is misplaced.





I never claimed the victim was the perpetrator, but she most certainly can be at fault. Nothing in that takes away the guilt of the other party, so that dog don't fly. It's silly to say fools have no responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Just because we're talking about rape does not mean we have to over react and lose all our common sense. The very idea of reaping what we sow addresses that.

I agree.

 

[Ktoyou]

I wouldnt consider that rape.

Me neither. if she did not try to defend her honour. I would place all the blame on Swarthmore College

 

[Angel4Truth]

You keep tossing around this example but you can't seem to comprehend that rape in that scenario is still not okay.


These are not the same things. You see, the truck did not stalk you, follow you, rip your clothes off and then run you over, did it? The river didn't grab you and force you underwater, right? In these cases, the aggressors are not purposefully and actively harming someone else. In the case of rape, they are. Honestly, how can you even begin to equate these as the same thing?

You expect drunk people to behave with a sound mind and judgment?

Why do you reckon there are bouncers at nudie bars?

It is poor judgment for a woman to be nude, and lap dancing in a private area with a bunch of drunk men.

If a drunk woman goes along with sex shes deemed not to be responsible for her actions for her condition these days - ie, she couldnt reasonably consent to sex, so the man is at fault.

But when the man is drunk and has a naked woman sitting in his lap over and over and being teased by her all night, he should be the epitome of self control?

Wrong, in both cases - both people are responsible based on their own actions.

PS a drunk man isnt ripping off the clothes off a naked woman whose been sitting in his lap and teasing him.

 

[musterion]

no, you should be held responsible for your behavior

just as i should be held responsible for my behavior if i wave my wallet in front of you chanting "nyah, nyah, nyah - I have five hundred dollars and you don't" right before i pass out

Okay, that's funny.

 

[ok doser]

how about this one? Is this woman responsible for the "rape" that she endured?

Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up (ie. having sex) for three months”: “They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’” Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped.

I wouldnt consider that rape.

Me neither. if she did not try to defend her honour. I would place all the blame on Swarthmore College

:freak:

she'd been "hooking up" with this guy for three months

she had long since tossed any claim to "honor" right out the window with the condom wrappers


this illustrates clearly the problem we've created in this society - we no longer feel comfortable calling a whore a whore (or slut, or whatever)

and so, we pretend that they have "honor" to defend and that if they claim rape, that claim must be respected

 

[ok doser]

I do not blame the victim of a crime.

even if their actions led them to a situation where the crime was likely?

 

[ok doser]

I think if you change the word rape to robbery, you'd see the difference. The fact that the word is rape means we've had certain things grilled into our heads that have robbed us of our common sense in this issue.

yep :thumb:

No brainer.

What about frat parties?

All parties drunk and woman gets gang raped?

the woman bears some responsibility for putting herself in a risky situation

it amazes me that you understand the distinction when considering the scenario of a robbery in Harlem but are unable to when it comes to rape

 

[ok doser]

I cannot think of a single situation where a rape of a woman is the woman's fault.

Would you agree that situations exist where a woman bears some responsibility for being raped?

According to aCW you wouldn't even need to go to a gay bar. A previously straight guy may decide to become gay at the sight of you in your chaps while in a compromised situation.
Of course what this guy decided to do to you would have been all your fault and any unpleasant diseases acquired by either party in the process.

“all my fault”?

No

But I think it’s foolish to pretend that my actions didn’t contribute to the rape


iow, of course I bear some responsibility

 

[Cedarbay]

she'd been "hooking up" with this guy for three months

she had long since tossed any claim to "honor" right out the window with the condom wrappers

this illustrates clearly the problem we've created in this society - we no longer feel comfortable calling a whore a whore (or slut, or whatever)

and so, we pretend that they have "honor" to defend and that if they claim rape, that claim must be respected

How do we define a whore or a slut?

Those terms get thrown around willy nilly these days, and in some circles, it is a compliment.

For the OP, it seems that rape is a legitimate crime only under certain circumstances, rather than it being a crime every time it occurs.

 

[ok doser]

Even if that were true nationally or culturally, individuals can't do much to change that and don't therefore become somehow individually culpable or complicit if raped.

this has to be changed at the individual level – see Katz

Individual women typically follow cultural norms but surely they are no more acquiescing to be raped than cyclists are acquiescing to be run down because they ventured out on public roads?

it depends – have we developed or allowed to develop a society where the running down of cyclists is pervasive in our culture, where we talk about it constantly, where it saturates our media, where young men and woman are taught at an early age to play games featuring the running down of cyclists?

if so, then i would say that a cyclist who chose to venture out on public roads is doing it knowing there's a strong risk involved

 

[ok doser]

Do you think a grandmother, who is brutally beaten and raped, is responsible for that rape?

yes, i do

as much as any of us, for allowing our current cesspool of a culture to have developed

 

[ok doser]

How do we define a whore or a slut?

dictionary is a good place to start

Those terms get thrown around willy nilly these days, and in some circles, it is a compliment.

which is exactly the problem we're talking about - a depraved culture that celebrates and rewards the likes of Miley Cyrus for adopting the persona of a prostitute

trust me, it's not a compliment in Christian circles

For the OP, it seems that rape is a legitimate crime only under certain circumstances, rather than it being a crime every time it occurs.

you lost me :idunno:

 

[bybee]

even if their actions led them to a situation where the crime was likely?

We could talk about one's freedom to go wherever one pleases. On paper it sounds great but in reality, I grant you, it is much more complicated.
I would not knowingly enter into an unsafe situation.
A young freshman coed goes to a party to have fun. I doubt that she realizes the danger she may be in.
I believe that college men have a responsibility to behave decently.
Still, the realities of life do require using care whenever one is out in public. Of course there is date rape and friend rape and opportunistic rape wherein a man commits a crime perhaps because he justifies his behavior by blaming the victim? It happens.
If we can get away with blaming someone else for the words of our mouths, the deeds of our hands and the way of our feet then none of us are safe.

 

[ok doser]

A man raping a woman is not a natural consequence.

actually Q, it is becoming one, as our society is changing

no doesn't mean no to many young men

no means "next time use roofies"

 

[glorydaz]

yes, i do

as much as any of us, for allowing our current cesspool of a culture to have developed

"As much as any of us".......nice evasion.

That comes pretty close to saying God created evil because He created man, and man is evil and responsible for allowing evil to exist. Are you taking a walk down that road?

 

[ok doser]

... man is ...responsible for allowing evil to exist.

man is responsible for allowing evil to exist unopposed

and that's what we've done in the last fifty years, while our culture and society have slid into depravity