Nontrinitarianism

[StanJ]

If you consider your posts answers, well, then from your perspective or focus, who am I to argue?
However, from my perspective, you are avoiding answering almost all, if not all, of my questions.
I point out the distinction scripture makes between God and His son, and do you address the verses I supplied? No, you do not. (Acts 2:22, I Timothy 2:5 ....) You avoid those verses entirely
Why is that?
You can either deal with those verses or cut them out of your Bible
Which have you done?

Arguing/discussing involves relevancy, not deflection.

When you start with a false premise there is no USE to continue answering questions based on false/erroneous assumptions. I deal with the real issue, not red herrings.

You point out 2 scriptures that depict certain attributes of Jesus, AND ignore others that define WHO Jesus actually is. That is normal with you and your ilk. Thinking we don't see it is rather like under estimating your opponents strength.

Well that same response it what I have used on many of you and your ilk, but it gets NO response at all, so I stopped using it. If you now want to reciprocate in kind, I will be more than willing to.

 

[keypurr]

Arguing/discussing involves relevancy, not deflection.

When you start with a false premise there is no USE to continue answering questions based on false/erroneous assumptions. I deal with the real issue, not red herrings.

You point out 2 scriptures that depict certain attributes of Jesus, AND ignore others that define WHO Jesus actually is. That is normal with you and your ilk. Thinking we don't see it is rather like under estimating your opponents strength.

Well that same response it what I have used on many of you and your ilk, but it gets NO response at all, so I stopped using it. If you now want to reciprocate in kind, I will be more than willing to.

Why not focus and discuss just the two verses Stan.

Then you bring up two verses to dispute it.

 

[keypurr]

Are you running Stan?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Are you running Stan?

He has to.

He's the one who started with the false premise and now cannot answer.

 

[keypurr]

Agree

 

[Tambora]

Does Nontrinitarianism believe that Jesus was created?

Mostly.

There are however some in the 'trinity' loop that believe the Lord Jesus Christ IS the Father, and IS the Holy Spirit.
A common title for this belief is modalism (but there are other titles).

Modalism basically teaches that GOD only consists of one person. And that one person changes modes at times ---- ie. is sometimes in the mode of the Father, sometimes in the mode of the Son, and sometimes in the mode of the Holy Spirit.
One person who just switches costumes (for lack of a better term), or like one actor that plays different roles.

In other words, not 3 persons interacting with each other, but just one person switching roles.
Their equation is a 3 modes acted out by one person = the one true GOD.
Ours is a 3 persons that interact with each other = the one true GOD.

A lot of circles don't even consider modalism to be in the trinity category. But some do.

 

[StanJ]

Mostly.

There are however some in the 'trinity' loop that believe the Lord Jesus Christ IS the Father, and IS the Holy Spirit.
A common title for this belief is modalism (but there are other titles).

Modalism basically teaches that GOD only consists of one person. And that one person changes modes at times ---- ie. is sometimes in the mode of the Father, sometimes in the mode of the Son, and sometimes in the mode of the Holy Spirit.
One person who just switches costumes (for lack of a better term), or like one actor that plays different roles.

In other words, not 3 persons interacting with each other, but just one person switching roles.
Their equation is a 3 modes acted out by one person = the one true GOD.
Ours is a 3 persons that interact with each other = the one true GOD.

A lot of circles don't even consider modalism to be in the trinity category. But some do.

The more common and accurate term, is Sabellianism, and no that is NOT a fact.
The ONLY person in the Godhead, is Jesus.

 

[keypurr]

The more common and accurate term, is Sabellianism, and no that is NOT a fact.
The ONLY person in the Godhead, is Jesus.

Your joking I hope.

Who is the head of Christ?

 

[StanJ]

Your joking I hope.
Who is the head of Christ?

Learn what headship is first, before asking such a stupid question.

 

[keypurr]

Learn what headship is first, before asking such a stupid question.

Your not! I feel sorry for you.

 

[StanJ]

Your not! I feel sorry for you.

I doubt you FEEL anything, or you would feel God's spirit telling you to stop all you prevaricating.

 

[oatmeal]

Arguing/discussing involves relevancy, not deflection.

When you start with a false premise there is no USE to continue answering questions based on false/erroneous assumptions. I deal with the real issue, not red herrings.

You point out 2 scriptures that depict certain attributes of Jesus, AND ignore others that define WHO Jesus actually is. That is normal with you and your ilk. Thinking we don't see it is rather like under estimating your opponents strength.

Well that same response it what I have used on many of you and your ilk, but it gets NO response at all, so I stopped using it. If you now want to reciprocate in kind, I will be more than willing to.

So then, in other words, you are not willing to deal with those verses.

or you cannot deal with those verses without conceding that both Peter and Paul make clear distinctions between God and His son, who is a man.

When you decide to believe the clear distinction that both Peter and Paul make, you will have to discard all the usual trinitarian smoke and mirrors and then you will find there is nothing left in scripture to support the trinity

In one sense, I do not envy you, for you have had that threeology pounded into you for a long time and it may be difficult to deal with long term acquaintances.

But in a much greater sense, that will be a great cause for joy and rejoicing for you for the truth shall set you free.

John 8:32

 

[StanJ]

So then, in other words, you are not willing to deal with those verses.

There are NO other words oatmeal. I said what I said, despite your repeated equivocations. Receptive ears will understand.

 

[oatmeal]

There are NO other words oatmeal. I said what I said, despite your repeated equivocations. Receptive ears will understand.

So then you continue to willfully ignore those verses!

What a scholar you are!

 

[StanJ]

So then you continue to willfully ignore those verses! What a scholar you are!

I willfully ignore YOU, because YOU are a troll. Insincerity begets dismissiveness.

 

[keypurr]

I doubt you FEEL anything, or you would feel God's spirit telling you to stop all you prevaricating.

I have felt God's spirit Stan, he has given me many blessings, one of which is wisdom of his words. Not all his words but enough of them. Pray for understanding and he might bless you also.

 

[Right Divider]

You can not be FIRST without a beginning.

Isaiah 44:6
“This is what the Lord says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12
“Listen to me, Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

You sure do say some dumb stuff.

The first and the last is describing God as the ALL, the EVERYTHING. Not that God has a beginning. God is ETERNAL. That is BEYOND TIME.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I accidentally stumbled onto a thread today. Come to find out, it was a debate about the trinity vs anti-trinity.

It got me to thinking.

Does Nontrinitarianism believe that Jesus was created?

Thank you kindly.

Jesus is the creation of God in whom He dwells in the fullness.

All others who make it to the resurrection will be as the first creation is.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

LA

 

[StanJ]

I have felt God's spirit Stan, he has given me many blessings, one of which is wisdom of his words. Not all his words but enough of them. Pray for understanding and he might bless you also.

No sorry that's NOT God's spirit, that's a false spirit. I don't have to pray for something I already have keypurr.

 

[Lon]

I do believe Jesus' earthly body was a creation, but I believe Jesus existed with the Father since before the creation and appeared to Moses, etc.

There are serious problems with this theology because scripture makes NO bones about God/Christ creating the heavens and the earth in equivalence as "God."

Jehovah Witnesses (Arian), Unitarian, and Mormons claim Jesus was created.

I don't believe I've ever met a 'two eternal gods' cult before. It has, as I said, severe problems with scripture. That is 'why' these all make Jesus a creation or they are modalists. The rest of us are triune because, as I said, I believe /we believe it the only tenable position.