Nontrinitarianism

[StanJ]

the creator(jesus) is not the created

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


What does this mean to you?

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

"And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

It's really hard for me to not believe Jesus is God.

John 1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind."

You won't get anywhere with keypurr using this rational POV, as he is apostate and NOT rational. Welcome aboard.

 

[StanJ]

Haha yeah I assumed as much after seeing several of the same threads. Everyone is into their own thing I guess. For me it's emphasis on his water/blood/spirit (1 John 5:6) for them it's Jesus divinity. :rip:

Actually for them, it is the LACK thereof, that they try to convince everyone of.

 

[oatmeal]

the creator(jesus) is not the created

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


What does this mean to you?

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

"And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

It's really hard for me to not believe Jesus is God.

John 1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind."

Jesus was the image of the invisible God

God is invisible.

Jesus is the image that can be seen.

So, God is invisible,

Jesus, the image of God (not God, but the image of God) is visible.

Conclusion: Jesus Christ is not God.

That requires the use of God's design for man's brain that it think and think precisely and logically

You could learn how to think precisely too

 

[keypurr]

This shows exactly your rational. No wonder you are lost. :nono:

Is that your rebuttal?

 

[StanJ]

Is that your rebuttal?

No, it's an assessment. You were rebutted the day I started posting on here.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

No, it's an assessment. You were rebutted the day I started posting on here.

Oh, I remember that day well. It changed my life.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You should listen to me Stan. You will not hear what I teach in church.
I teach truth not fable. Your choice is to follow God and his son or your traditional error ridden church.

In fact, you will not hear it anywhere except from KP. He made it all up.
He expects everyone to believe whatever he says! Just take his word
for it.

 

[oatmeal]

Funny how all these threads keep getting refuted and they start another. Thank God Sherman has warned about no more anti Trinity threads. They won't be able to avoid getting cornered anymore.

Not a single one has been refuted, on the contrary, the trins start avoiding scripture and start the name calling, the mud slinging and sidestepping, much like you are doing.

I have yet to read any trinitarian refute the clear message of I Timothy 2:5, Acts 2:22, Acts 10:38, John 20:31 and the hundreds of other verses that make clear distinctions between God and His human son.

Sherman probably got tired of seeing trins run with their tales dragging behind them.

If God is a trinity and wanted us to know that, at the very least, He, or is it They, would say that, He, or is it They, would say so.

What's that verse about adding to scripture?

Where in scripture do you find the following words, "trinity, triune, God-man, fully God/fully man, God the Son, hypostatic union, mother of God, etc"?????

Are you suggesting that you are smarter than God, that God's vocabulary had to be supplemented by your vocabulary? That God couldn't think up words that described himself or is it themselves?

Jesus Christ did not have a problem with scripture, John 17:17, as it is written, why do you?

 

[iamaberean]

Jesus was the image of the invisible God

God is invisible.

Jesus is the image that can be seen.

So, God is invisible,

Jesus, the image of God (not God, but the image of God) is visible.

Conclusion: Jesus Christ is not God.

That requires the use of God's design for man's brain that it think and think precisely and logically

You could learn how to think precisely too

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
LORD and his redeemer is the first and the last.

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Jesus saying he is the first and the last, same as LORD had said but he added "which was dead".

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

You can not separate LORD and the redeemer for they are one, the first and the last.

 

[StanJ]

Not a single one has been refuted, on the contrary, the trins start avoiding scripture and start the name calling, the mud slinging and sidestepping, much like you are doing.

They ALL have and responding condescendingly is just as much ad hominem as anything else. It's very clear who started it and as usual you and your ilk deny everything . That's your MO

I have yet to read any trinitarian refute the clear message of I Timothy 2:5, Acts 2:22, Acts 10:38, John 20:31 and the hundreds of other verses that make clear distinctions between God and His human son.

Yes Jesus IS the human progeny of God, AND He is also God incarnate.
I myself have refuted you so now you're just lying.

Sherman probably got tired of seeing trins run with their tales dragging behind them.

No he was very clear who he was feddup with. Those of your ilk who keep starting new threads on the same issue they keep failing to prove or corroborate.

If God is a trinity and wanted us to know that, at the very least, He, or is it They, would say that, He, or is it They, would say so.

He IS and He DID. That you don't accept or understand what His written Word states only shows you are blind.

What's that verse about adding to scripture?

LOL...yeh you sure look like you know the scriptures. :loser:

Where in scripture do you find the following words, "trinity, triune, God-man, fully God/fully man, God the Son, hypostatic union, mother of God, etc"?????

Asking this only confirms more than ever you can't read the Word of God with ANY comprehension, which means you don't have the Holy Spirit you profess to.

Are you suggesting that you are smarter than God, that God's vocabulary had to be supplemented by your vocabulary? That God couldn't think up words that described himself or is it themselves?

Are you suggesting God's Word contradicts itself ANYWHERE?

Jesus Christ did not have a problem with scripture, John 17:17, as it is written, why do you?

and yet you refuse to accept when His word says he is God.
John 14:7-9 (NIV) is also speaking to you oatmeal.
Wake up and smell the coffee.

If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

They ALL have and responding condescendingly is just as much ad hominem as anything else. It's very clear who started it and as usual you and your ilk deny everything . That's your MO



Yes Jesus IS the human progeny of God, AND He is also God incarnate.
I myself have refuted you so now you're just lying.



No he was very clear who he was feddup with. Those of your ilk who keep starting new threads on the same issue they keep failing to prove or corroborate.



He IS and He DID. That you don't accept or understand what His written Word states only shows you are blind.



LOL...yeh you sure look like you know the scriptures. :loser:



Asking this only confirms more than ever you can't read the Word of God with ANY comprehension, which means you don't have the Holy Spirit you profess to.



Are you suggesting God's Word contradicts itself ANYWHERE?



and yet you refuse to accept when His word says he is God.
John 14:7-9 (NIV) is also speaking to you oatmeal.
Wake up and smell the coffee.

If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

I'm a Trinatarian like yourself however, it appears to me that your,
verbal delivery makes you look like a real jerk, troublemaker, and
uncivil. You're always calling names and being disruptive. For a
"Newbie" such as yourself, I give you a, "thumbs down!"

 

[oatmeal]

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
LORD and his redeemer is the first and the last.

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Jesus saying he is the first and the last, same as LORD had said but he added "which was dead".

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

You can not separate LORD and the redeemer for they are one, the first and the last.

Actually I can.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

The greater Lord is the Father and the lesser lord, who receives commandments from the Father is the son of God.

The son works in harmony with the Father by always doing the Father's will, not his own.

The son is in the Father's business.

The Father choose to redeem mankind, the son being in the same business as the Father, worked to the same goal.

 

[oatmeal]

They ALL have and responding condescendingly is just as much ad hominem as anything else. It's very clear who started it and as usual you and your ilk deny everything . That's your MO



Yes Jesus IS the human progeny of God, AND He is also God incarnate.
I myself have refuted you so now you're just lying.



No he was very clear who he was feddup with. Those of your ilk who keep starting new threads on the same issue they keep failing to prove or corroborate.



He IS and He DID. That you don't accept or understand what His written Word states only shows you are blind.



LOL...yeh you sure look like you know the scriptures. :loser:



Asking this only confirms more than ever you can't read the Word of God with ANY comprehension, which means you don't have the Holy Spirit you profess to.



Are you suggesting God's Word contradicts itself ANYWHERE?



and yet you refuse to accept when His word says he is God.
John 14:7-9 (NIV) is also speaking to you oatmeal.
Wake up and smell the coffee.

If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

and yet you refuse to accept when His word says he is God.
John 14:7-9 (NIV) is also speaking to you oatmeal.
Wake up and smell the coffee.

If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

So could you point out where Jesus says "he is God" or "I am God"?

Do you want to know a little about what my father was like?

You could read my posts and learn about some of the characteristics of my father.

Since we are to imitate God, Ephesians 5:1,

our lives should show who God is by how we live.

God is love, we should love

God is light , we should be the lights in this world

God is compassionate, we should be compassionate

God is rich in mercy, we should be rich in mercy

God is powerful, we should live spiritually powerful lives.

God is faithful, His words are faithful and truth, our words should be faithful and true and we should be faithful

God is wise, we should be wise.

God is generous, beneficent, we should be generous and beneficent.

God is willing and able to help those who come to him, we should be willing and able to help those who come to us, most often by teaching them the promises of God

Need I go on?

 

[StanJ]

So could you point out where Jesus says "he is God" or "I am God"?
Do you want to know a little about what my father was like?
You could read my posts and learn about some of the characteristics of my father.
Since we are to imitate God, Ephesians 5:1,
our lives should show who God is by how we live.
God is love, we should love
God is light , we should be the lights in this world
God is compassionate, we should be compassionate
God is rich in mercy, we should be rich in mercy
God is powerful, we should live spiritually powerful lives.
God is faithful, His words are faithful and truth, our words should be faithful and true and we should be faithful
God is wise, we should be wise.
God is generous, beneficent, we should be generous and beneficent.
God is willing and able to help those who come to him, we should be willing and able to help those who come to us, most often by teaching them the promises of God
Need I go on?

As you can't or won't understand, it's useless to repeat myself.

God said;
Is 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Who was Isaiah prophesying about oatmeal?

 

[oatmeal]

As you can't or won't understand, it's useless to repeat myself.

God said;
Is 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Who was Isaiah prophesying about oatmeal?

Is that how you reply to a question?

Sidestep it entirely?

Evidently, you don't get it yet.

We should so conduct our lives, as sons of God, I John 3:1-2, that like Jesus, we should be showing the Father.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

 

[iamaberean]

Actually I can.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

The greater Lord is the Father and the lesser lord, who receives commandments from the Father is the son of God.

The son works in harmony with the Father by always doing the Father's will, not his own.

The son is in the Father's business.

The Father choose to redeem mankind, the son being in the same business as the Father, worked to the same goal.

The use of the term 'right hand' means power.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
It is clear that he is both LORD and LORD of hosts (redeemer). Spirit and body. When we get to heaven we will see Jesus, for we can not see his Spirit. I am not the one that says there is only one God, the LORD says so.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

 

[StanJ]

Is that how you reply to a question?

It is when the same people ask the same questions over and over and over again and won't accept the answers they are given.
Also I have a particularly hard time with self righteous/pious posts.

 

[keypurr]

The use of the term 'right hand' means power.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
It is clear that he is both LORD and LORD of hosts (redeemer). Spirit and body. When we get to heaven we will see Jesus, for we can not see his Spirit. I am not the one that says there is only one God, the LORD says so.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

You seem to understand more than most.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It is when the same people ask the same questions over and over and over again and won't accept the answers they are given.
Also I have a particularly hard time with self righteous/pious posts.

Like your own?

 

[oatmeal]

It is when the same people ask the same questions over and over and over again and won't accept the answers they are given.
Also I have a particularly hard time with self righteous/pious posts.

If you consider your posts answers, well, then from your perspective or focus, who am I to argue?

However, from my perspective, you are avoiding answering almost all, if not all, of my questions.

I point out the distinction scripture makes between God and His son, and do you address the verses I supplied? No, you do not. (Acts 2:22, I Timothy 2:5 ....) You avoid those verses entirely

Why is that?

You can either deal with those verses or cut them out of your Bible

Which have you done?