Nontrinitarianism

[StanJ]

This applies to you and many on TOL.

Once you accept ALL that Jesus and the written Word of God says then MAYBE we can have a dialogue keypurr, but you DON'T, so we WON'T.

Jesus said: I and the Father are one.
Jesus said: If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Jesus said: Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
Heb 1:8
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.”
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Peter 1:11
and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 3:2
I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Col 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:9-10
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
Titus 1:3
and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
Titus 1:4
To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:10
and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
Titus 3:6
whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior
Is 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Is 43:11-12
I, yes I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I’ve revealed and saved and proclaimed, when there was no foreign god among you — and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD.

 

[keypurr]

Once you accept ALL that Jesus and the written Word of God says then MAYBE we can have a dialogue keypurr, but you DON'T, so we WON'T.

Jesus said: I and the Father are one.
Jesus said: If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Jesus said: Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
Heb 1:8
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.”
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Peter 1:11
and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 3:2
I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Col 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:9-10
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
Titus 1:3
and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
Titus 1:4
To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:10
and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
Titus 3:6
whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior
Is 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Is 43:11-12
I, yes I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I’ve revealed and saved and proclaimed, when there was no foreign god among you — and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD.

You read, but you do not see.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Joh 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
1Co 15:24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Co 15:27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Eph 1:17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom n and revelation, so that you may know him better. NIV

Ro 15:5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus,
Ro 15:6 so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. NIV

Rev 1:5. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father —to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. NIV

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Jam 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Stan, it is YOU who does not read scripture.
You do not have the courage to face truth when it hits you in the face.

 

[keypurr]

Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Joh 8:45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!Joh 8:46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
Joh 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

Notice Stan, He came from God so he can not be God.

 

[Bright Raven]

Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Joh 8:45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!Joh 8:46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
Joh 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

Notice Stan, He came from God so he can not be God.

Wasn't He sent from God?

 

[keypurr]

Wasn't He sent from God?

YES, He was sent from God, so explain how he is God if he was sent from God.

Did God send himself? Then who did he pray to? No logic in that thinking BR.

 

[StanJ]

Stan, it is YOU who does not read scripture.
You do not have the courage to face truth when it hits you in the face.

I accept ALL the scriptures keypurr, including the ones you keep repeating, but I understand them IN CONTEXT, which you refuse to do.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 1:18&version=LEB;NET;NASB;NRSV;MOUNCE

Nobody denies God is Jesus' Father even though Matt 1:20 says the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, we understand it. YOU and your ilk don't.

All you do is throw out scripture that you use to deflect and obfuscate the truth of God, like ALL unbelievers do.

 

[StanJ]

YES, He was sent from God, so explain how he is God if he was sent from God.

Did God send himself? Then who did he pray to? No logic in that thinking BR.

John 1:18 (NIV)

We don't need to explain it keypurr, the Bible already does.

 

[StanJ]

Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Notice Stan, He came from God so he can not be God.

Well that deduction just shows how badly you interpret scripture.
Sherlock Holmes you are definitely NOT.

John 1:1, 14, 18 (NIV)

 

[keypurr]

I accept ALL the scriptures keypurr, including the ones you keep repeating, but I understand them IN CONTEXT, which you refuse to do.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 1:18&version=LEB;NET;NASB;NRSV;MOUNCE

Nobody denies God is Jesus' Father even though Matt 1:20 says the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, we understand it. YOU and your ilk don't.

All you do is throw out scripture that you use to deflect and obfuscate the truth of God, like ALL unbelievers do.

So how many God's do you have Stan?
Jesus and I only have one.

Your not even close to understanding the content of scripture.

 

[StanJ]

So how many God's do you have Stan?
Jesus and I only have one.
Your not even close to understanding the content of scripture.

You need to come up with some NEW or truthful material keypurr.

 

[achduke]

You need to come up with some NEW or truthful material keypurr.

1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

 

[keypurr]

You need to come up with some NEW or truthful material keypurr.

You should listen to me Stan. You will not hear what I teach in church.
I teach truth not fable. Your choice is to follow God and his son or your traditional error ridden church.

 

[Bright Raven]

You should listen to me Stan. You will not hear what I teach in church.
I teach truth not fable. Your choice is to follow God and his son or your traditional error ridden church.

All you teach is fable theory, no fact!

 

[keypurr]

All you teach is fable theory, no fact!

You say that because you do not understand the content of what is written. Jesus Christ has a God, his God is the only God. He has told us that and you wish to discard it. You would rather go along with the crowd which only follow their traditions, tan to follow your Lord.

Jesus was not God. There is only ONE TRUE GOD, his Father.

 

[Bright Raven]

You say that because you do not understand the content of what is written. Jesus Christ has a God, his God is the only God. He has told us that and you wish to discard it. You would rather go along with the crowd which only follow their traditions, tan to follow your Lord.

Jesus was not God. There is only ONE TRUE GOD, his Father.

You believe in a least two Gods, The Father and the Son as a lesser God, in violation of God's law. Hear O Israel, the LORD thy God is one God!

 

[keypurr]

You believe in a least two Gods, The Father and the Son as a lesser God, in violation of God's law. Hear O Israel, the LORD thy God is one God!

Stop telling me what I believe.

The Father is the ONLY God.

Christ is a creation, but given the fullness of the Father, so he is a FORM of God, NOT God. Christ is a servant of his Father. God says jump and Christ jumps. He was sent to us, he did not come of his own accord. He obeys his God out of love and respect. He came and took the form of man to die for us. God can not die. But Christ could, this was God's plan from the start.

 

[StanJ]

Stop telling me what I believe.

The Father is the ONLY God.

Christ is a creation, but given the fullness of the Father, so he is a FORM of God, NOT God. Christ is a servant of his Father. God says jump and Christ jumps. He was sent to us, he did not come of his own accord. He obeys his God out of love and respect. He came and took the form of man to die for us. God can not die. But Christ could, this was God's plan from the start.

You HAVE said God had a spiritual son, so just as a human son is human a spiritual son of a god is a god.
You're so blind you can't even use you own logic to see how you contradict yourself.

 

[keypurr]

You HAVE said God had a spiritual son, so just as a human son is human a spiritual son of a god is a god.
You're so blind you can't even use you own logic to see how you contradict yourself.

President Kennedy had a son also, was his son President also?

 

[oatmeal]

Doesn't have to. It refers to him as God.

Actually, since this thread is about the trinity, and the trinity refers to Jesus Christ as "God the Son" it would be reasonable to know if scripture actually refers to Jesus as "God the Son" which it does not.

Exodus 7:1 KJV refers to Moses as God, therefore, Moses is "God the Son"?

How about all those people who Jesus referred to that God refers to as Gods? John 10:34-35 They are "God the Sons" as well?

According to you, yes.

That answers the question of whether there is a trinity or not. No, for according to the above information and criteria there are far more than three involved.

Since being called god by God does not make anyone a creator, your point is moot.

 

[StanJ]

President Kennedy had a son also, was his son President also?

This shows exactly your rational. No wonder you are lost. :nono: