When one uses that stumper "The fact of the matter is..," it is a sure sign they have no argument-it is pure filler.
Mr. Religion and His Calvinistic Nonsense
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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When one uses that stumper "The fact of the matter is..," it is a sure sign they have no argument-it is pure filler.
The old reliable "you heretic" technique.
Quite original, Buckwheat.....You caught me off guard. Stunning! Never heard that stock cliche, "Hail Mary," closet Catholic. Catholics perfected that cliche.
Again, you talk like a Roman Catholic-they talk like you.
Nope-you and pappa teach that the church is some alleged infallible ecclesiastical hierarchy of clowns, in clown hats, clown outfits.
Is that a matter of fact? :chuckle:
My theology doesn't chop the Bible to pieces to excuse worldliness and getting beamed up into the sky when things get tough.
You talk like a cultist :idunno:
nikolai_42
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I'm not sure what all AMR said since you didn't link to the thread, but based on the quote, I would have to say I find myself more in agreement with the foundations he is upon than where you seem to be coming from...
John said this of his gospel and its account of the Lord's works :
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 20:30-31
Would one who reads this be able to come to it and have no abiding faith and just decide to believe all the miracles that were described in the bible (or limit it just to John's gospel for the sake of context)? Would someone who doesn't believe what he reads simply come to it and be expected to work up belief so that he does believe what he reads (and is thereby saved)? Or, rather, is the Word of God itself the active agent in producing belief (or revealing the belief that is already there)? Either way, the command to believe is not something the natural man can work up. He either does or he doesn't believe. The Lord may open a man's eyes but it is still the work of God to do so.
John's gospel records Jesus saying this to the Jews :
Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:24-28
The very verse brought up (somewhere in this thread) to address assurance is here seen in the context of Jesus saying that the unbelieving Jews didn't believe because they were not of His sheep. Not the other way around.
So in terms of Paul's statement to the jailer, the question "do you believe?" may not have been the appropriate phrase for Paul since faith is commanded. And if God commands, He provides. So to be consistent with Jesus' words to the Jews, it seems to me that Paul's command to the jailer was simply one of bringing the Word of God to bear on the man. Not placing the burden of coming up with faith upon him.
Your quote of Romans 1:16 certainly seems to have a cause and effect implied - but what is the real foundation?
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:16-17
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The Word of God is the foundational, active agent in it all. Whether it is actually there at a man's birth or whether it is given by God upon the hearing of His Word, the critical point here is that it all rests on something God does. That is where the confidence lies - not in the ability or work of man to effectuate what God has desired.
Remember what you have quoted...
...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
...and remember what Jesus said of the Holy Spirit :
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17
Faith is a precondition for receiving. You may think that I am agreeing with you - but remember (again) that Jesus said the Jews did not believe because they were not of His sheep.
The only way I know to properly interpret all this is to recognize that faith is a work of God. That the work of God is to bring a man to see and understand the Truth. Otherwise, shouldn't miracles have cause men to believe?
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
John 12:37-41
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Matthew 13:58
Was Jesus limited by man's unbelief or was He responding to their existing state (and not trying to change it)? If Jesus was limited by man's unbelief, then let's all name it and claim it...
So while I may appear to partly agree with your take, that approach places the onus on man to believe. Rather, it is either that a man already believes - or the Spirit of God produces faith in that man as he hears the Word. Either way, God's work in salvation is magnified rather than man's work.
It was only a matter of time-the old reliable "Bible chopper" charge, part of your trifecta, eh, Cliff?
Sell all you have....Go to Jerusalem 3 times/year....Show yourself to a Levitical priest, and offer the gift that Moses comanded, and, wait for it.......Observe the law........Wait....You closet Catholics already do, and that is "evidence" that you are saved, according to you......
No? You bible chopping fraud.
That's your best volley, Clavinist?
Please teach us another cliche, by which we are blind sided........Please?
There is the third part of the trifecta....
Please teach us? Not one person, in the history of mannkind, ever used that stumper, before you......
Again-your Catholic Brothers taught you well....You talk like them....
Next up?: The "attack Martin Luther" technique?
Vs.
Acts 24:5 KJV For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:
Acts 28:22 KJV But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
Not in your Clavinist/Calvinist SOF, is it, Cliff?
You all are the one's obsessed with Jerusalem.
And
Covenant Theology expresses a universal covenant, that is the whole reason for the work 'catholic'. When you are so anti-Catholic that you see even Protestant tradition as Roman Catholic, you have simply forsaken a universal concept of God.
Instead, you 'divide' the scriptures and make God's will arbitrary.
Why does Samie spread "False Doctrine?" Does anybody know for sure why Samie does that? I wonder?
Add yourself to that list.
I agree with Tam on this one.
Samie is "Unshowable." Why is Samie unshowable? I wonder?
There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Yet, these three are One.
Observe the deception....Cliff "argues"...
And yet, when challenged by the great one to...
He side steps, and creates a moving target, moves the goal posts, and..
View attachment 25118
You devious fraud....Everyone, to some degree, "divides" the bible, "bible chops," and honest people admit that they do..Only dishonest droids, such as yourself, do not.
Now, sell all you have...............Can I have a spare key, to your condo in Jerusalem, since you are obsessed with it, not wanting to be called a "bible chopper," as you assert that all of the commands in the book are for you?
I thought saw....Another con artist exposed....That is the definition of "Calvinism."
Bible chopper.
How did I do, Cliff?
And of course, as usual, you're wrong. It's okay no big surprise.
Crucible is like Meshak, he's on a "Wait and see" program. In the end, he'll find out if he's saved or not.
Crucible is a hybrid. One-half Calvinist and one-half Catholic.
Peter didn't 'know', and he walked with Jesus and saw miracles.
Are you better than Peter?
You all openly express that you don't comprehend the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism, so how could you figure some idea that I'm a 'hybrid' of the two :chuckle:
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