Mr. Religion and His Calvinistic Nonsense

[Nihilo]

I'm not sure if you are being cute with words...or if I'm just daft. The latter is likely true. What do you mean by one true church? There was no organized denomination. The individual congregations had their differences. Their would have been true believers and non believers in each different congregation. It wouldn't have made any difference if each congreagation had put a different name over the church door. Agree? IOW....Do you agree that the one true church consists of both Baptists, vegans , Catholics...Calvinists, Armenians...etc

I agree with that. But as to " The individual congregations had their differences, " we read the New Testament epistles and they are full of exhortations to be careful about teaching, and the Apostles' primary remedy to the problem of divergent teaching was to appoint successors called overseers or bishops, and the primary job of the bishops is to teach and to therefore keep safe the true expression of the One Christian faith (Eph4:5KJV). So the differences between individual congregations did not include variations in teaching on certain verified, known topics, and one of those topics is the Trinity. Bishops oversaw that all the parish churches in their diocese were taught the truth of the faith.

 

[Nihilo]

If the church at Rome is the One Church then why do her teachings contradict the word of God which reveals that al believers enjoy eternal security? First we can see that Christians have already been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11). And here is what the Lord Jesus said about those to whom He gives eternal life:
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

He also said this:
" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).

The church at Rome teaches that that the Lord will indeed cast out those who do not meet certain standards and she teaches that no one enjoys eternal security.

All of these things are contradicted by the Scriptures! The leaders of the church at Rome do not even understand the basic teachings found in the Scriptures. They are blind as bats!

Jerry, are you denying that the earliest Church believed in, and taught the Trinity? If not, then why are you fighting?

 

[Nihilo]

The bride is Jesus Christ....

What a mess! Disaster! Catastrophe!

 

[Nihilo]

So do you not believe what is said here?
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).

You seem to think that you know what it is not saying so please give us your interpretation of what it does mean.

Thanks!

Faith must not be among "things not seen," so therefore we can see faith. That's my interpretation. What does faith look like?

 

[Nihilo]

Then explain this verse:
"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" (Eph.5:30).

Jerry, Paul himself said it's a mystery, in the very next verses. There is a "mystical union" between the Lord and His One Church, His Bride.

 

[God's Truth]

What a mess! Disaster! Catastrophe!

Who do you think the bride is?

This scripture says the bride is the New Jerusalem and we are part of the Holy City:

Revelations 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Revelation 3:12
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.


Jesus' body is the temple of God.


Revelation 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Revelation 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

What a mess! Disaster! Catastrophe!

You should not cut off my whole sentence. It is dishonest to do that.

The bride is Jesus Christ and his saved ones in him.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You should not cut off my whole sentence. It is dishonest to do that.

The bride is Jesus Christ and his saved ones in him.

Well, No.

Jesus Christ is the bridegroom.

(Mat 9:15) And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

(Mat 25:1) Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

(Mat 25:5) While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

(Mat 25:6) And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

(Mat 25:10) And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

(Mar 2:19) And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

(Mar 2:20) But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

(Luk 5:34) And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?

(Luk 5:35) But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

(Joh 2:9) When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

(Joh 3:29) He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

(Rev 18:23) And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

 

[glorydaz]

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen," so faith must not be among "things not seen," otherwise this is a silly sentence, so what's faith look like?

Unlike God, you can't see into the hearts of men....that's where faith is found.

The evidence is "believe in your heart". You'll find that all throughout the Bible.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Then explain this verse:

"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" (Eph.5:30).​

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

1 John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

That's to the House of Israel

 

[Lazy afternoon]

There are three, but the three are one and the same and not separate and distinct as the Catholic denomination teaches.

Yeah the Father begat Himself.

 

[God's Truth]

Yeah the Father begat Himself.

That is right.

There are three and the three are the same.

John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?


When you see Jesus, you can say, "I see the Father."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, are you denying that the earliest Church believed in, and taught the Trinity? If not, then why are you fighting?

I just told you. The scriptures declare that the believer enjoys eternal security while Rome denies that truth.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Faith must not be among "things not seen," so therefore we can see faith. That's my interpretation. What does faith look like?

Your imagination is running wild!

"Faith" is the evidence of things not seen. The verse does not even hint that "faith must not be among 'things not seen'" so therfore we can see faith.

That makes no sense!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

That is right.

There are three and the three are the same.

John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?


When you see Jesus, you can say, "I see the Father."

The disciples of Jesus had to perceive the Father in Jesus, not see by eyesight.

LA

 

[Samie]

If you are right that people are "in Christ" before they believe then we must believe that unbelievers enjoy the following blessings:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" (Eph.1:3).​

Your idea that unbelievers enjoy those blessings is ridiculous, as ridiculous as what you said here:



If you want to argue that a person is saved prior to believing then tell me why Paul and those with him answered the following question in the way that they did:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

According to Paul a person must believe in order to be saved. According to you salvation comes to people before they believe.

Let me see...who am I going to believe, you or Paul?

I will have to go with Paul!

What spiritual blessing do you enjoy that others do not enjoy, Jerry? God sends rain to both the just and unjust. He provides free oxygen to all. All are enabled to believe. All are given opportunity to repent. I don't think you are special over others who you consider unsaved. Remember Matt 8:11, 12?

As to Paul's statement to the jailer, here's my initial post in this thread. I am reposting this because you clipped the portion that answered your question. Hope you read my post in its entirety this time.

I was already fast asleep when this thread started.

As far as this thread goes, no one attempted to refute my position that people are born already in Christ, and hence In Christ FIRST AND FOREMOST before they can believe.

Spoiler

If it is true that people has to first believe before he can be saved, as Jerry and most others teach, then people can NEVER be saved.

If one is NOT yet saved, he is not yet in Christ. If he is not yet in Christ, he cannot bear fruit. If he cannot bear fruit, then he has yet no faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit. If he has no faith, then he cannot believe. And if he cannot believe, he cannot be saved according to Jerry's doctrine.

Jerry tried to counter by quoting Rom 10:17 that faith comes by hearing the word of God. So, unless one hears he cannot have faith he can use to believe. What comes first being in Christ or hearing?

The Bible says that Christ is our life. If one is not in Christ, he is spiritually dead. If one is spiritually dead, he cannot hear spiritual things. If he cannot hear then he cannot have faith. And we are back to square one.

People need to be in Christ FIRST and FOREMOST so he can hear, then have faith, and then believe. And to be in Christ is to be saved. So saved first before one can believe.

But Jerry wants the cart before the horse.

He quotes Paul's statement to the jailer that he will be saved if he believes. And Paul was correct, of course. It was Jerry's understanding that was wrong.

Paul was correct that people will be saved if they believe.

will be saved is FUTURE tense, NOT Past Tense. People are born already saved, this is PAST tense. And for people to benefit from the FUTURE Tense will be saved , they have to overcome the evil of UNBELIEF by overcoming it. People overcome the evil of UNBELIEF when they BELIEVE. They can believe because they have faith, being in Christ.

If they refuse to believe, then they are not overcomers and Christ will blot their names from the book of life and they will end up in the lake of fire.

Scriptures make clear that to be in Christ precedes believing, that is, saved first before one can believe. If people refuse to believe, then they cannot benefit from the future tense of salvation and cannot receive eternal life.

Please address the answer I gave to the question you asked. So we can better discuss the issue. Thanks.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What spiritual blessing do you enjoy that others do not enjoy, Jerry? God sends rain to both the just and unjust. He provides free oxygen to all. All are enabled to believe. All are given opportunity to repent. I don't think you are special over others who you consider unsaved. Remember Matt 8:11, 12?

As to Paul's statement to the jailer, here's my initial post in this thread. I am reposting this because you clipped the portion that answered your question. Hope you read my post in its entirety this time.Scriptures make clear that to be in Christ precedes believing, that is, saved first before one can believe. If people refuse to believe, then they cannot benefit from the future tense of salvation and cannot receive eternal life.

Please address the answer I gave to the question you asked. So we can better discuss the issue. Thanks.

Samie continues to post "False Doctrine." Why does Samie feel obligated to do that? I wonder?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What spiritual blessing do you enjoy that others do not enjoy, Jerry?

Do you really believe that the eternal destiny of the unsaved is as good as the eternal destiny of the saved?

I really hope that they treat you well in your padded cell!

 

[God's Truth]

The disciples of Jesus had to perceive the Father in Jesus, not see by eyesight.

LA

Calvinism believes in the trinity doctrine; however, you are derailing this thread.
The scripture plainly says when you see me you see the Father.