Mr. Religion and His Calvinistic Nonsense

[Jerry Shugart]

Then believe what He says. He says there is One Church.

I do not want to derail the subject of this thread so I will only say that my faith rests on what the Scriptures say and not on what some men say about the Scriptures. If you want to start a thread on the church at Rome then be my guest. But let us stick to the subject of this thread.

Thanks!

 

[zzub]

They read the Bible, alright. They just don't comprehend it :wave2:

So, so much for that dumb, overly cliched sentiment you just made.

Boring

Zzzzz

 

[zzub]

Hey guys.

Just for info. Ask Mr Religion - Known as AMR on Christianforums.com - is a long time troll. Pushing Calvy nonsense by the back door, front door, up the drain pipe or whereever.

Sola Scripture used to mean the Bible alone. Not The Bible plus a load of horse pucky called calvinism.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What exactly does 'faith' and 'righteousness' mean to an anti-Calvinist?

I will start on the subject of "faith":

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).​

No one can have the "evidence of things not seen" unless he firsts believes the word of God which reveals exactly what it is that is "not seen." After all, it is impossible to even know what the "things not seen" are unless we actually hear of those things.

Paul tells us exactly how we acquire "faith."

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Ro.10:17).​

First one has to hear the word of God and then he has to "believe" it. It is only by believing the word of God that anyone can have the "evidence of things not seen."

 

[Nihilo]

I will start on the subject of "faith":

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).​

No one can have the "evidence of things not seen" unless he firsts believes the word of God which reveals exactly what it is that is "not seen." After all, it is impossible to even know what the "things not seen" are unless we actually hear of those things.

Paul tells us exactly how we acquire "faith."

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Ro.10:17).​

First one has to hear the word of God and then he has to "believe" it. It is only by believing the word of God that anyone can have the "evidence of things not seen."

Evidence of things not seen through direct inference means that faith is seen. What does faith look like?

 

[Crucible]

Boring

Zzzzz

I'll tell you what's boring, as well as dubious:

When a person claims to be a 'Bible believing Christian'.

Even Roman Catholics believe the Bible- there's no such thing as a Christian who doesn't believe the Bible. The problem is that what they believe of the Bible is either limited or adulterated by preconceptions or errant interpretation.

So, when someone says they are a 'Bible believing Christian', I automatically suspect their theology :wave2:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Evidence of things not seen through direct inference means that faith is seen. What does faith look like?

That is not what this verse is saying or even implying:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).​

When one has true faith then he has the "evidence" that the things revealed in the word of God are true. The things revealed in the word of God are not seen but the believer has the evidence that they are true. Therefore, the true believer "knows" that they are true because the Lord has given us an understanding of these things:

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ" (1 Jn.5:20).​

 

[Crucible]

I will start on the subject of "faith":

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).​

No one can have the "evidence of things not seen" unless he firsts believes the word of God which reveals exactly what it is that is "not seen." After all, it is impossible to even know what the "things not seen" are unless we actually hear of those things.

Paul tells us exactly how we acquire "faith."

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Ro.10:17).​

First one has to hear the word of God and then he has to "believe" it. It is only by believing the word of God that anyone can have the "evidence of things not seen."

A person cannot naturally have faith in God- faith is in and of itself a miracle that God draws onto His elect. That is because authentic faith will bring with it an imputation of righteousness, something that you all have made into a technicality to get into Heaven rather than a work or ethic that perseveres in a saint.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A person cannot naturally have faith in God- faith is in and of itself a miracle that God draws onto His elect.

You did not even attempt to address anything which I said.

A person could not naturally believe the gospel if it came in word only. But it does not come just in the word only because it comes in power and in the Holy Spirit:

"For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance" (1 Thess.1:5).​

The Holy Spirit works simultaneously with the "good news" of Christ and those who do not resist the Holy Spirit will believe the "good news" of Christ. The words of the Lord Jesus makes it plain that the Spirit works in unison with the Spirit to bring life to those who are dead in sin:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

One can't believe until they are saved. Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8, and the Gospel is hidden to them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3. As long as a person is in a lost state, the Gospel is hidden from them, and they believe not!

The reason for your confusion is your "Hyper-Calvinist" belief system. You poor soul.

 

[Crucible]

You did not even attempt to address anything which I said.

A person could not naturally believe the gospel if it came in word only. But it does not come just in the word only because it comes in power and in the Holy Spirit:

"For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance" (1 Thess.1:5).​

The Holy Spirit works simultaneously with the "good news" of Christ and those who do not resist the Holy Spirit will believe the "good news" of Christ. The words of the Lord Jesus makes it plain that the Spirit works in unison with the Spirit to bring life to those who are dead in sin:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

If faith comes by hearing, then faith ought to be predestined. Otherwise salvation is plain arbitrary, and both salvation and damnation become frivolous.

There is no confidence with the apparent Pelagian god you all hold to.

The 'good news' is only good news to the believer. It is rather bad news to the person who rejects it. The scriptures are for the elect.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'll tell you what's boring, as well as dubious:

When a person claims to be a 'Bible believing Christian'.

Even Roman Catholics believe the Bible- there's no such thing as a Christian who doesn't believe the Bible. The problem is that what they believe of the Bible is either limited or adulterated by preconceptions or errant interpretation.

So, when someone says they are a 'Bible believing Christian', I automatically suspect their theology :wave2:

Has that ever caused anyone to cease to exist?

 

[Crucible]

[/B]

Has that ever caused anyone to cease to exist?

Maybe :idunno:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If faith comes by hearing, then faith ought to be predestined. Otherwise salvation is plain arbitrary, and both salvation and damnation become frivolous.

So you do not believe Paul when he says that faith comes by hearing?

And how do you come to the conclusion that if faith comes by hearing then that "faith ought to be predestined"?

 

[Crucible]

So you do not believe Paul when he says that faith comes by hearing?

The Elect are those who are quickened by the Gospel.

You claim that God's Word has so much power, and yet deny that it directly draws the Elect- that it's something that God's elect can be deaf to. How much do you want to trivialize of God's sovereignty to account for your free will?

Non-Catholics have no business at all being against Reformed doctrine lain:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Maybe :idunno:

Any ideas?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Where's your proof that you're one of the "Elects" Cruc?

 

[6days]

The Church in Scripture is not "a church," she is the Church, and she did survive the Apostles and the period in which the New Testament was written. Before the idea that there could be more than One Church ever entered anybody's head, there was One Church, as shown in the Scripture.

And yes, the Trinity is taught and presumed in the Scripture; there, we certainly agree.

Again...not sure what you are saying...sorry. Are you saying there is one church, being the body of believers? Or are you saying there is only one true denomination church?

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Crucible]

Where's your proof that you're one of the "Elects" Cruc?

What's your proof that you are :idunno:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What's your proof that you are :idunno:

I asked you first. I'll bet you don't have an answer. Just make one up and I might just buy it if it sounds clear and concise?